Pre 1950s rides of LFGSS: old bikes, vintage rats, classic lightweights

It was that that convinced me I had to have a pair of Allez pedals.
(And the CL sprints 😖)

I often use the pedal section if I find an interesting pair of pedals and figure out whether I should buy them, Normally it's a purchase I don't need:)

Holdsworth Zephyr, Looks like the front drop outs have been filed - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224340973749

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I think I did the same, without the Cantiflex tubes unfortunately it’s a bust.

The CL sprints are about as nice as pedals get imo. I don’t have any 😖

Re Hobbs Blue Riband one of the pics the top tube looked pretty bent. Would be a few hundred quid to sort out, but worth it for starter £40. I’ll pick it up and drop at Argos for you ;)

Edit: looking again hard to say, that first pic looked bent but maybe the light / failing eyes / medicinal brandy. Offer stands :)

Drooool.

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Urgh. Pedals sure are a lustful component, not surprised someone started an online museum (excuse to collect them). Those do it for me.

I have a rather delapidated pair of those; managed to find some better-preserved ones on eBay a few years ago as replacements, but not quite as as pristine. They are nice, thankfully I have forgotten how much I paid…

Frame Size Fashions

I agree with Absurdbird that in the fifties the fashion was for largish frames with only a small amount of seatpost exposed.

It's in the nature of fashion to react- mini skirts will inevitably be followed by maxi dresses, at least for a while. Cyclists like to think, when they are specifying their new kit, that they are making decisions in accordance with recently discovered engineering principles. They hope these new ideas will help them go faster than the previous generation of riders and, naturally, the trade is not going to discourage ideas that involve their customers buying new equipment.

In the Edwardian period (pre WW1) it seems to have been normal to have the saddle pretty much directly on top of the seat lug - this may well have encouraged the sloping down top tube which was common at that time. After the war the opposite style became the norm with plenty of seat post exposed, and this is probably why many of the surviving inter-war frames are on the small side. Naturally, post WW2 , as Absurdbird says, the fashion went the other way and there was less seatpost on show. Not everyone followed this trend and it's important to remember that money was scarce: many of us made do with what we happened to have.

When I ordered my first frame as an adult puchaser in 1975 I thought I needed a 22.5" frame, and possibly I did, because it was hard then to find a long seat pin. Gradually I've reduced my desired frame size to 21", and I feel much happier with this - too big a frame makes it hard to ride out of the saddle as the top tube gets in the way.

It seems to me that the limitation on reducing frame size is the amount of the handlebar stem above the headset that you are prepared to tolerate, so a headlclip h/set gives you another inch to play with.

So, right now I'm going out fot a little ride before it starts snowing - my machine: 21" Sunbeam, with headclip.

Thank you @clubman, do you mind me asking how tall you are? I'm guessing you're talking ctt as your measurements are in inches.

I'm 5'8" and my modern bike is a 54cm ctc and that seems about right. I did have a bike fit a few years ago and if I remember, they thought it was ok, certainly can't remember being told it was too big/small. [The main take away point I can remember is that the 172.5mm cranks the bike came with were at the top end of what they'd recommend and I now have 170mm on pretty much all my bikes.]

That bike is square (horizontal top tube naturally) but feel I could have a longer top tube / stem projection than the averageish I've got (I think from memory 9cm give or take a cm). Also think I have about two fists of seatpost showing, although we are not together at the moment sob. Long story short, I think it gives some scope to have a slightly bigger frame with less seatpost.

The ctt measurements give a bit of variability, for example the lugless Hobbs frames have nearly an inch of seattube above the toptube for the clamp. I think the one I have is 23" ctt but the ctc I measured was 56cm.

I agree vintage pedals are porn.
Maybe they’re so tempting because there was such variety of design as ideas were refined. Also they take a hammering, wear out and get replaced, so original top quality ones are hard to find in really good condition. I bought and sold quite a few before I found the Chater Lea above and these Allez in almost unused condition. The Allez had been crashed but I managed to straighten out the quills and sand out the road rash.

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I was 5'10", but I've probably shrunk a bit - this is caused by compression of the spinal discs, but I guess my legs are the same as ever.

Yes, I measure frames from the centre of the BB to the top of the seat tube, but in the case of a lugless frame with a projection above the seat tube for the clamp, I would measure to the level of the top of the top tube. It's worth remembering that virtually all old British built frames will have been built to a round number of inches or half inches - it would be rare to find one that was say, 22 and three quarter inches, for example.

Bike fitting does depend on the opinion of the person doing the fitting. I had one done before deciding on the last frame I had built, but the result was a bit disappointing. The 'expert' had decided that I was a fast pedaller and recommended a 75 degree seat tube - I never did a decent ride on that frame. Of course it might have been due to my own failing powers.

In the end you just have to find what is most comfortable (of efficient ) for you at whatever purpose you're using the bike. Alternatively if you want to look in period you may well have to put up with some discomfort and inefficiency.

Amazing to see Allez pedals in such good condition!

But I really think you should get some decent toe straps. I had some like yours when I was very young and could only afford 3/9d as opposed to 5/6d for the real thing (prices 18.75p, 27.5p may not be deadly accurate, but are about right for late 1950's).

The 'real thing' being quick release strap with a roller and a tab at the top of the buckle so that the rider could easily release the strap when strapped in (you must have seen dozens of them). Those straps in your pic. are fine for securing a cape roll or other luggage, but as I discovered, not great as toe straps because they're difficult to loosen when riding, especially on fixed.

I know, they’re pretty dreadful things, although they are unused since the 50s (there’s probably a reason for that).
I fitted them out of slavish period correctness. 🤪 The toe clips are new 50s Christophe Specials too 😖
I’m not sure when those quick release type buckles appeared, were A. Binda the first in the 60s?
These V.A.R ones I have have the same buckle, they’re at least better quality leather.

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I'm certain proper quick release straps existed before 1960, and I think long before. I don't know when they were first used, but if I come across an early advert or photo I'll post it.

Re your Allez pedals ... very nice. I have a few tasty sets of pedals, the best condition are some nos Constrictor Cobra that I need to find the right bike for. I have some pretty good condition Hobbs pedals that I'm planning to give the same attention as you've given your Allez. Those alloy sideplates seem to wear pretty quickly, so not sure I'll dare use them. Planned for the high days and holidays build :D

Re toe straps ... the design of the recent retro Brooks straps was supposedly based on a 1930s design. I don't know why they stopped making these, I really like them, have a few sets stashed.

These fancy vintage leather toe straps feature the unique quick release buckle designed in the 1930's.

Paturaud were making them at least by 1955 - the Ron Kitching from that year shows the "Eclair' model, there's been a pair on Ebay for a while at $150 grimace

The "BTE SGDG DEPOSE" marked ones are earlier http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=231DAB39-057B-465F-BCBB-85DF8BEB53F4&Enum=103&AbsPos=3 I've seen adverts from 1949 at least, the attached is from Le Cycliste 1951. I've got some red ones that I've managed to clean up nicely (and treated with Proofide which has seem to work nicely).

I think the "PARIS-SPORT" model are later, 60s maybe.

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I'm not sure the Brooks are quite what @Clubman means, but they look classy. I didn't grow up in clips and tend not to have the straps pulled tight / need to release the buckle when stopping :)

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Re frame sizes and bike fitting ... thanks @clubman. Agree with all that. The bike fit I had done early on when I picked up cycling again. I used that as a template for other builds but I've since ridden a lot and think that's why I got to wanting a longer reach / flatter position. However I have not ridden much in the last year or so (spending several months of lockdown without a bike or just riding fixed around a shorter circuit), I've even had to resort to running grimace
[The builds I've got going on now are varying sizes with stems of different reaches available so I'm going to play around and see what's comfortable.]

I think i have one of these vito cages, i will check and let you know!

Toe straps are basically consumables on a bike, like tyres. So finding originals is difficult/expensive/crazy and then you don’t want to use them.
Using low key modern ones is fine for me.
https://reynolds-england.com/products/leather-toe-straps-red

$150 for toe straps is mental.

I started using clipless in the mid 90s and I still do for any serious distance - I like my Sidis.

Re vito cages ... that would be amazing, thank you

Yep, why I like the Brooks. They get knocked in pretty quick! Those Reynolds looks good, I bought a pair of shoes from them a few years ago that I'm still enjoying.

I'm starting to feel the same about clips as well. I'm glad I didn't have some $$ nos Constrictor clips on when I started riding fixed with clips :D I've found it significantly harder to get my foot in than with a freewheel, wobbled across a few junctions scraping the clip on the tarmac.

Can't go wrong with Christophe clips and straps imo, I found a few pairs of the 70s/80s era straps in black and in white at an ok price.

I just had to share these after the previous post! Found in a box of parts a few months back.

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Sent you a pm

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