Should Scotland be an independent country?

I'd not be surprised if Boris started campaigning for an independent England instead just too piss everyone else off! Leave the union to Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland.

Then we'd see the problem was actually Tories and their divide and conquer rhetoric.

Checking back in after a day and there are about 7 pages to read through.... It still doesn't feel clear cut and even in the last few pages, people are still cherry-picking information in order to get it to say whatever they want. How are the public meant to make a decision on a complex problem when there is no consensus on fact?

I did happen to know the opposition leaders in Scotland as the labour party is on an interim leader, but I'm not sure why this is important?

It's the opposite, the UK as a member of the EU always had control of its laws, money and borders - that it did not was a fiction.

I disagree with this part of Dammit's argument. The UK didn't have effective control of EU Directives being implemented in UK law. These automatically became law. Judges had to interpret in their favour. Denning's dissenting opinion quoted above asserted Parliament's authority but this (to my knowledge) was never exercised. My key point is that to understand the impact of EU law it's necessary to look at the arguments about its implementation. In my view this was never entirely settled. To summarise, I disagree with always above.

I also disagree with the argument that because the UK was a member of the EU then EU law was almost UK law. EU directives are drafted by the Commission and approved by the Parliament and Council. The UK had 73 MEPs in a parliament of 751.

There are no facts in Scotland.. Only propaganda!

How are the public meant to make a decision on a complex problem when there is no consensus on fact?

I understand that's what happened in June 2016 and it's all going marvellously

The Scottish Labour party is facing a crisis of existence. Are they unionist, federalists or indie? The block vote in central Scotland has gone.

So many people have an opinion on Scottish politics without being aware of the players involved apart from Nicola Sturgeon who gets vilified in the right wing press, villain boo hiss, and Baroness Ruth Davidson, saviour woohoo. RD was a BBC journalist, did the PR bit well but hopeless as a politician. Given ermine for her part in the No campaign and stabbing her successor in the back as he was also useless. They now have Douglas Ross MP, (also useless)but Ruth got recalled to stand in as leader in the Scottish parliament . Still with me? Labour without a leader at the moment because the last guy was useless and a local millionaire who sits in the House of Lords informed the leadership that he wouldn’t donate any more unless he was got rid of, Sir Keir duly got rid of. Lib Dems, wee Willie Rennie, fuck me, absolutely useless. Green party, rabbit hole of navel gazers, only Andy Wightman stood out there, he left and now wants to sit as an independent, a decent guy and an effective politician. A stand out in the current era.

Where’s your facts on the pretend history and cultural cringe?

Haha!!
One of my favourite words. 😂

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shanner

I generally use it when something is just a bit shite.

See also - Shan

Person 1: "I heard Kirsty dumped Jimmy after he lost his job!"

Person 2: "uch that's pretty shan!"

Indeed. But we've all seen what happens when wild promises are made as to what will happen after independence.

Also, if the EU isn't going to admit Scotland then that removes the "we should have a second referendum as the UK left the EU" argument so I'd say it is relevant.

You’re saying the majority want it now, that’s not true.

How so? You wont have the answer to that without a referendum, and if you believe in polls the last 18 have all shown a majority in favour.

Agreed. Still a lot to be worked out.

Every polls I’ve seen there minimal numbers asked there was one doing the round a few weeks ago that had all the answers for yes (they asked 1200 people in this poll) I think it was 52 for yes and 48 for no. One of the questions was do yiu think Scotland can afford to go solo or something like that and it wasn’t the resound 52 that said yes. 22 percent said they didn’t know and I’m sure more said no that yes they could.

It’s this pie in the sky idea that the grass is greener on the other said but thinking with your heart than your head. It’s stupidity.

You’ve named a bunch of opposite worst cunts in your post, but you can’t see the wood for the trees here.

I’ll name two who have got the noses in the trough as much as everyone you’ve listed.
Ian Blackford “but I am just a humble crofter” yet is an ex banker and is claiming 241k in expenses for the year and No 2 Mhairi Black, she does a great speech on Fb once every 6 months to get the people going abiut the big bad tories when in reality she’s done fuck all for her ward and has last time I checked the worst voting record in Westminster.

They are all as bad as one another and to think any of them wouldn’t milk the country when it’s independent is insane.

Mhairi black is my MP and she’s a twat. And Ian Blackford was a banker? Aren’t bankers allowed to get elected? And they can be replaced at the next election if their constituents decide.

Ever heard a great speech from Douglas Ross anywhere ever?

Ok you’re trolling please go and watch Braveheart

What worries me about this is we see another extended period of hostility and division like we did between Remainers and Brexiteers. I never really knew on Brexit what was the right answer and didn't see a convincing argument either way, just people being increasingly aggressive. It seems the same thing has just happened in the US elections as well.

I support fully Scotlands right to self determination, and I am as sick as the next guy of the Westminster/Eton brigade continuously fucking things up but I am also tired of this polarised politics where everyone stays in their bubble and make no attempt to reach a middle ground, all fueled of course by whichever newspaper/facebook feed/forum they are exposed to.

I would be interested to hear from convinced Pro-Indys what would it take for them to stay in the union?

(Half Scots, seriously thinking of moving up there in next few months).

Useless for the tories up here, the problem we have is that Labour have had a crisis of identity up here and has been mentioned already in this.

Id vote labour up here but they would need to sort there act out and that doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon and thats why the SNP have ran away with it up here with no decent challenges. The scottish greens will sway with the wind and are at best easily pleased and are getting bought off by the GCC by daft things like bike lanes which are useless in the town and very badly thought out.

Theres really no great outlook up here imo, but I look forward to the next white paper from the snp again to see how we got thrive as an independent country.

Pretty sure this thread descended into calling each other cunts pretty quickly last time around.

There is no middle ground thats one of the issues, that was seen so clearly in the last one up here. You're with us or your against us and people became very bitter i'd say more on the pro indy side post vote and for one second I dont believe it'll won't be the same again.

Thats pretty much what I expect. Sadly.

Labour took their support for granted for years, moved to the right away from the Scottish electorates wishes . Pursued power and surrendered the principles the party was founded on. Now can’t recover lost ground with no policies and slavish devotion to the union.

Fortunately not a word I use.