Pre 1950s rides of LFGSS: old bikes, vintage rats, classic lightweights

What am I doing wrong here? I had a go at fitting this Erlotti torpedo to forward facing dropouts. A stud to the right of the axle hole clashes with the track nut- I’m wondering if I have the hanger plate on back to front or whether it’s not supposed to hang from a forward facing dropout at all....
anyone got any suggestions? Cheers

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The only reference image I could find is not very helpful here

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This is rather nice - However it appears that it was built up before the new paint was cured - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174521493824

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Just a guess but back to front somehow? Wouldn't that put the stud in the dropout slot so keeping the hanger steady? Is it reversible?

Edit just realised that would put the stud behind the axle, so maybe a point for track ends.

Can you take the hanger plate off and turn it around? On the likes of 70s and 80s derailleurs with no hanger, that locating stud usually goes into the back of the dropout behind the axle.

@Jonny69 & @veloham - Thanks for the prompt response, yes it's easy to flip the hanger plate and as you say it'll prevent the plate rotating about the axle too. there's plenty of room in the dropouts. The bike came with a 70's Simplex on a hanger with similar arrangement (clamp bolt). Cheers

No problem. In the middle of a particularly tedious bit of work so looking for distractions :)

Talking of which and talking of track nuts, I think I've seen on fixie forum threads that fixed gear in forward facing dropouts is something to worry about (although not quite the same level as covid, brexit or all the other things going). I guess as rear facing track ends means pumping your massive guns can't pull the wheel out of the dropouts and ruin your pretty face.

Neither of which are a massive problem for me :)

Also fixed in front facing dropouts seems pretty common bitd - I think in the 1948 Guide to Cycling (I'll try and put my hands on it again), there's a bit about the innovation of forward facing dropouts / ease of removing your wheel - i.e. nothing to do with it being about gears.

Anyway, long story short, I like these Cyclo "True-Track" adjusters (and have a set), but I'm guessing they're not really necessary. Although I do have a couple of sets of period alloy track-nuts, and I have also read people worrying about 70 yo alloy threads when pumping their massive guns. That seems a bit more valid to me.

So my thoughts are: nice and tight steel nuts = better; Cyclo adjuster = nice if you like it; 70 yo alloy track nuts = just look at them on your shelf or ride nonchalant like without pumping your guns or maybe pop on some Cyclco adjusters if you're showing off.

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Here it is, from the Cycling Manual 1947 in the VCC - I found it an interesting read.

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The '47 manual is great - from my position of relative ignorance I've assumed the 40's were a time of standardisation in bike design and not much changed for another 40 years.
30's and early 40's are comparitively full of variation - I remember phoning Chris Grange for some clip-headset spares and the available variations blew my mind, there were 3 different fork steerer pitches iirc and that's before you even start on bearing race diameters....

They look great - I've not seen these before
Before the fixie boom when my winterbikes were fixed with forward dropouts I'd have loved a set of these - best of both worlds for mudguard fixed riding!

I've always assumed that these dropouts on my daughter's Stallard Zakopane were aiming at the same thing

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Returning to the Erlotti 3 speed - flipping the mount seems to have done the trick, but judging by angles and spring tension it looks like it was probably intended for a horizontal dropout.

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I think it should be located on the inside of dropout like this:
https://www.registrostoricocicli.com/rsc/registro-frejus/frejus-018/

Watched a friend run through the simulated tool paths for his massive new cnc machine two weeks ago to recreate a set of the Lytaloy cranks and the chainring. I will post some photos when he has done the prototype.
The design is scanned from the original set I own, not reimagined like the CL version.

Fantastic, that’s got to be the way. Thanks very much

That sounds amazing @BigBlock

Yes, does seem on the low side!
Doesn't look like a Lytaloy axle to me.

Ohhhhh, excited to see how this turns out!

I think I've seen on fixie forum threads that fixed gear in forward facing dropouts is something to worry about (although not quite the same level as covid, brexit or all the other things going). I guess as rear facing track ends means pumping your massive guns can't pull the wheel out of the dropouts and ruin your pretty face.

This idea is silly. Forward facing drop outs were invented for single gear machines. I can't find the reference at this moment, but I believe the Peugeot team in the 1912 Tour de France changed their frames overnight because they realised the advantage of the forward facing end for rapid wheel changes.

If you do happen to pull the wheel over, either by excessive strength or by failing to tighten it properly, it won't come out of the fork end - it will just foul on the chainstay, exactly as it would with track ends.

I've seen one of Fausto Coppi's track bikes in the museum at Novi Ligure, perhaps the original Bianchi Pista, and guess what, it has forward opening road ends!

It seems to me that chain adjusters (one type shown in the post above) have two uses:

1. For the super fussy who want to get the perfect tension at the chain's tight spot.
   
2. On traditional roadsters where track nuts can't be used because the mudguard stays go on the wheel spindle outside the fork end. With this set up even a weak rider will pull the wheel over without chain adjusters.
   

Thanks @clubman I was hoping for your input. Seemed a silly worry to me too :) I’ve only been riding fixed for a year, so read hints and tips on the interweb when I started. I have the axle about midpoint in track ends and haven’t noticed I’ve pulled it any which way. Just riding normally, not many explosive sprints ;) My figuring was you wouldn’t worry about pulling a freewheel out the front in that sort of riding, nothing different with fixed.

You missed a reason though, 3. those Cyclo adjusters are 👌

Quite relieved not to win though, don’t really want the cranks and don’t really have the funds 😅

Look forward you seeing those.

It might just be because I don’t like change, but I’m finding the new CL’s stewardship of classiclightweights pretty disappointing. Trying not to be negative, the transition was never going to be easy, fingers crossed they pull it together!

It might just be because I don’t like change, but I’m finding the new CL’s stewardship of classiclightweights pretty disappointing. Trying not to be negative, the transition was never going to be easy, fingers crossed they pull it together!

Ah is that what's happened? I was really struggling with the new layout and there were a few things I simply couldn't find at all.

Yep exactly those issues. The picture/gallery viewer is clunky and feel like I'm going nuts "...I'm sure there was a Mafac page on ClassicLightweights ... or where did I see it? what?...".

Good the website as a resource persists, a heck of a legacy Peter Underwood has left to the scene he clearly loves. Not a joy to use currently though, hopefully it beds in, all articles are migrated, usability improves a bit. I can imagine it's a big task and doesn't pay, so one thing if it's your passion, another if done as a business / sideline. For the new CL maybe it's because they love it, maybe because it gives them exposure and associated authenticity, maybe a bit of both :)

In the meantime there's always the wayback if you need it ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20200122194912/http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/index.html

@veloham That link to the previous site is fantastic, The current site is dreadful.

Ditto. Many many thanks.