US Politics

Tim pool is awesome and a great resource for on the ground American politics

Is it your Republican friend or you who thinks Tim Pool is awesome?!

He worked for my friend for a few years. Basically always openly said that he wrote opinions that earned him money. His self claimed switch from Dem to Republican game him a $20k per month Youtube earnings boost.

He's about as credible as Candace Owens.

If you never heard of him before and haven't watched the video, then why are you linking to it?

Apologies if repost, i found this helpful to understand why tomorrow's outcome may not mean all that much

https://www.ted.com/talks/van_jones_what_if_a_us_presidential_candidate_refuses_to_concede_after_an_election?language=en

Thought I'd share some points from outside the echo chamber from a Republican friend

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His self claimed switch from Dem to Republican game him a $20k per month Youtube earnings boost.

Not bad.

Reporting unsubstantiated claims from the "other" side = balance in the post-truth era.

Maybe not balance, but informative into how some of them get themselves comfortable with being in the post-truth era.

From what I can see the only North Americans or those living in North America posting here are left of center anti-Trump supporters.

Happy to edit my post to make it more obvious if someone has some suggested text, but I thought it was pretty clear from my intro that I was summarizing the current views of a Republican - who I assume will vote Trump.

Just thought it would be interesting for people to hear the views and key talking points from a Republican voter. In terms of background they'd identify as libertarian and fiscally conservative, didn't hate Obama (but didn't rate him) and happen to have a high IQ...whatever that counts for.

Happy to edit my post to make it more clear if someone has another suggestion, but I thought it was pretty clear from my intro that I was summarizing the current views of a Republican - who I assume will vote Trump.

Sorry, got confused because the final bit about Tim Pool wasn't part of the lists you posted.

I find it amazing that high IQ people can latch on to and believe disprovable propaganda. Reminds me of my physicist Uncle who spent a career working for DARPA and various other defense projects in the USA. He sends me links about the forrins from the Express all the time.

fwiw - I read your post as you were personally recommending Pool.

Yeah, I tried to change that, but normally the forum deletes extra line inserts so didn't adjust.

Will try and make that clearer. Also @kl that's for that, I've tried to make it clearer.

Some people will read this and think its a good reason to vote Trump. I've had 4 years to get used to Brexit and Trump and why people voted for them and my brain still hurts when I think about this shit.

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High IQ does not equal critical thinking skills OR emotional manipulation defenses.

Now, Trump did make a change to criminal law on drug charges that helped people and I am more than happy to give him that.

Voter suppression though with dumping postal sort machines? How can anybody be OK with that? That is just not OK.

I find it really interesting listening to other opinions- I personally hope Trump gets voted out but I also have listened to seemingly intelligent people who will be voting for him.

Obviously it's easier if you just call them all morons up from your moral high horse.
But this widening division between the left and right is happening here too. The increasing demonisation of the other side (and clearly everyone is at it) is a path that I hope we don't continue down.

Fuck off! Wanker.

WAC

The USA is my favourite drama show. Trump for another 4 years would be fascinating.

The USA
The Sopranos
The Wire

High IQ does not equal

Yeah, that's why I found it pretty interesting when I spoke to them a while back for the first time in a long time. I was quite surprised that given how far their views had moved given how much closer our views were when we were young. But mainly I was surprised by their lack of critical thinking in some areas.

That said they raised some valid points regarding Obama's record on immigration and foreign policy, which I'd ignored.

I find it really interesting listening to other opinions- I personally hope Trump gets voted out but I also have listened to seemingly intelligent people who will be voting for him.

Obviously it's easier if you just call them all morons up from your moral high horse.
But this widening division between the left and right is happening here too. The increasing demonisation of the other side (and clearly everyone is at it) is a path that I hope we don't continue down.

Opposing views are, of course, important. But calling out - and perhaps denying a platform to - random and/or false claims is just as, if not more, important.

(re: denying a platform - let's not give equal air time to anti-vaxers or climate change deniers).

Obviously it's easier if you just call them all morons up from your moral high horse.

Fair point.

There does come a point where rational discourse just goes out of the window, particularly when faced with demonstrably untrue nonsense - In the case of US politics (which we can all view from the sidelines with no skin in the game), it seems to be the GOPs stock-in-trade to dissemble & gaslight.

(Not that the Dems are that much better.)

So who gets to decide what is and isn't allowed?

It is a really thorny issue but bad ideas (say anti-vaxx) should be brought to light and debated to show how bad they are.

The problem right now (and why I want Trump gone) is that the public has completely lost trust in institutions and current scientific thinking. Trump has eroded this from the beginning of his presidency but the Brexit campaign did the same here.

The GOP know that currently if there is a high voter turnout and they don't gerrymander and attempt voter supression, they will lose the election.

If they want to remain in power then it's logical to do this. In a fair fight they lose every time.

It's morally reprehensible but people in power tend to want to hang on to it.

Obamas drone attacks were also wrong, I mean if John Oliver roast you, you have gone too far.

There is also the problem of tribalism and I think, no proof, 2 party systems make that worse too. No "close enough" tribe to go to.

Debate is not always open and fair, see the anti vaxxers, lots of emotional manipulation going on there. The fallacy of the middle ground means people with "opposing" opinions that are just pure bull get invited, which would be fair if people listen to them and go "wow, such bull" but many know a trick or two.

People can't always spot the debate tricks (because that needs serious training) so a whole new debating style / media way of dissemination information and opinions may be needed.

"walks past UK newspaper headlines" Em we have a bit to go :D

So who gets to decide what is and isn't allowed?

No one. No one is censoring anyone. I specifically said "calling out." Just because ideas exist doesn't mean they shouldn't be challenged and/or dismissed.

The de-platforming thing (which I tried to clarify in an edit) was about denying equal time or platforms in particular cases. Especially in cases where that platform is being used to lie.

It is a really thorny issue but bad ideas (say anti-vaxx) should be brought to light and debated to show how bad they are.

Yes. And there should be contexts in which those debates take place. But we shouldn't give climate change deniers a chance to muddy the waters when we're discussing scientific evidence for climate change.

The problem right now (and why I want Trump gone) is that the public has completely lost trust in institutions and current scientific thinking. Trump has eroded this from the beginning of his presidency but the Brexit campaign did the same here.

No debate from me here. Giving anti-science ideas more air time isn't going to rebuild trust though. Calling them out for what they are will.