Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Ah thanks, but I've moved job now to a place in Hammersmith. Not that I've been in the office long enough to find a barbers round there, it's been the Living Room Salon so far.

We're looking at office sharing with one of our counter-parties - sort of a 2-3 day on/off hot desk.

Obviously there are challenges, but even my C19 denier boss can see the benefit of part time remote working.

C19 denier boss

i mean... how?

I literally wrote that in the same sentence.

Also, The TAC in Oz basically invented 'hard hitting' car safety ads.

Well that is a bit of a clickbait line.

He's just one of those right wing eternal optimists, who thinks everything (whatever the topic) is a fuss or over reaction and it will all be great if we believe.

I think really he just doesn't think it's that much of a risk, doesn't believe masks, etc. make a difference and ultimately thinks that it only kills old people who are going to die of something sooner or later anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYTPRX1CCQ

Everyone of a certain age knows the "Katie bend your knee"

Tbh. I can totally see why he think that giving out government’s lacklustre attitude toward the pandemic as if it’s a common flu going around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtW­Wd8

There´s also the signs. "Survive this drive" for example is so simple and effective.

So it's again back into the "makes no fucking sense" court.

Viewed politically it makes sense - it costs them nothing to make it a requirement, there's no negative really because a lot of people here a just happy to comply or have been doing it anyway. On the flip side the science around it is still flakey which gives them an excuse for being late to the party, but like I say, no negative, so who cares?

It's an interesting subject to me, because I've had very smart people who should know what they are doing in regards to this stuff actually laughing out loud at the suggestion that cloth masks have any benefit regarding transmission. I suspect there is no scientific consensus, only, "ah fek it, masks are cheap and mostly harmless, it makes it look like we are doing something, let's give people what they want and force the povos to wear them"

I'd need to dig into planning permission laws here, but I've never seen that happen here.

Despite all the empty old kinda crappy office blocks in Belfast. But then, doing those up costs money so perhaps that is why it won't happen ;)

Viewed politically it makes sense - it costs them nothing to make it a requirement

I get that. What I don't get is making it a requirement 4 months after lockdown began and after things like pubs opened. That's the crazy bit.

There was no ‘consensus’ then or any indication that the population would tolerate it. Also people may have flouted lock down even more because of the bit of cloth on their faces or necks

What consensus? Did I miss a vote? Now people tolerate masks? If they'd made lockdown and masks 'the rules' instead of a friendly little government suggestion, they might've saved a few more lives.

They've also opened pubs before requiring masks. Que?

There was little/no evidence for the efficacy of masks when lockdown started. It's still debated now. In fact, the WHO recommended only people with symptoms wear them to start, and that they were not necessary for those without.

the WHO recommended against people without symptoms wearing them

Well in that case, WTF are they making them mandatory for now??

It’s straight forward populism. The definition of this government is it’s apparent ability to flex with the winds of popular opinion. No rules until the country wants rules, scientific consensus only once the general populace pricks up its ears. It’s social media government.

WTF are they making them mandatory for now??

There's more evidence that they are useful (even non medical-grade ones).

They've also opened pubs before requiring masks. Que?

It’s possible that they underestimated demand. And the numbers of people pointing at the demand and saying ‘second wave’. So they have to do something. Masks are something.

April: http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

"it was not until April 3 that the Centers for Disease Control formally recommended that Americans wear masks in public, after two months of stating precisely the opposite."

WHO appears to have change their stance in early June, before the pubs opened:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52945210

They're introducing this in late July.

It’s social media government.

Hah yes I guess so. Horse driving the cart.

no this sense government makes

I was resonding to this:

If they'd made lockdown and masks 'the rules'

At the point of lockdown in the UK there was little evidence supporting such a move, and a good amount of evidence opposing it.

But even taking onboard the April study, the WHO - as far as I can tell - only changed their recommendations in June.

Of course the UK could - and possibly should - have done it sooner. But it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. The science wasn't clear. Recommendations weren't clear. There were potential negative consequences (as others have mentioned with PPE shortages).

This government's been fucking useless though.

I thought the issue with the messaging around masks is that everyone, the WHO included, was worried that there wouldn't be enough PPE for front-line medical staff until global production capacity had stepped up, and so they downplayed their benefit. Now that there's more capacity and more availability, they're changing the messaging.

Yes, it has probably undermined their credibility a bit. But given the stupid run on toilet roll in the Anglosphere, I don't think it was a bad move.

It is the single worst government we have ever had.

This government's been fucking useless though.

I'm just going to selectively quote this and move on...