EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Might be other places as well? I know some forums moved off Facebook.

So, you are going then if you can? Escaping the Madhouse of Brexit.

And yeah it's a lot of hassle, finding a place to live, a job, where do you go (big city? or WFH and have some space?) and then learning Spanish. Exciting too I hope despite the work :)

https://news.sky.com/story/care-workers-do-not-qualify-for-health-visa-in-new-post-brexit-immigration-plans-12027646?fbclid=IwAR0ERxzY8GZOUj-jwg3rDVWunhG5y4A7b9WQ8_F4PcvS7gYMDcfkX-iGeT4

Extra cash for care workers to be trained by council, no idea if that is enough. 1.5 bn sounds like a lot but there is so much underpayment and agency work, I am not sure it really is. Somebody more qualified than me on here may know?

""We're seeing huge numbers of people registering for their right to remain and that's great so we have a big, big stock of workers who are helping out in this country who have come from abroad."

Stock? Like, em, livestock? Great choice of words there mate. Mooooooooooooooooooh! Baaaaaaaaaah! FeckOff.

My motivation for looking into places has disappeared but I'm still keen on the idea. Covid kinda fucked our plans up though.

I'm still doing basic Spanish on Duolingo and so is the missus now (she's kicking my arse). I'd go to a city but the outskirts with the hope of finding fast internet but a detached house to live in - I don't want to be in flats/apartments. I may keep my job here, since I can work remotely which would make the move easier, assuming they're ok with it. The missus is still WFH so maybe even she could keep her job.

So, it's still firmly in my head as something I want to do but it's been pushed back somewhat.

You've probably already looked into it, but just in case. Working remotely does not always mean you can do it permanently from another country. Your company would need to have an entity there to pay you from, or face additional tax implications.

Ooh I don't know anything about Spanish immigration

Nobody expects the Spanish immigration!

Emigration or death!!

Oh no, you said death!
Oh, go on then...

You've probably already looked into it

LOL

If nothing changes except my location what difference does it make to how I'm paid? The work gets done, the money goes into the bank, same as before.

If I work for a UK company, but then go to the ROI for more than 180 days in a single year, I/my employer need to pay tax to the ROI government. Even if that meant I lived by the border and spent 7 months at my mate's house further down the road who happened to be over the border.

Not sure what the arrangement is for UK Spain though.

Is that definite? This states otherwise: https://borderpeople.info/categories/employment/double-taxation-agreement.html

Granted it's not really relevant to the living in Spain, working for UK company discussion.

This is the kind of thing that needs considering
https://www.hrzone.com/perform/people/employing-people-overseas-tax-and-social-security-considerations
It's doable but does require the employer to be on board with it.

I just had a chat to one of our team that lives elsewhere. He gets paid in £ but pays tax on this in AUD (after some kind of transfer to local bank).

This lot are saying there's now monthly income requirements in Spain:
https://www.talkquesada.com/quesada-general-discussion-f9/residency-requirements-change-t44106.html

If I said nothing to my employer and just moved to Spain and carried on working remotely as I'm doing now, what would happen? I mean, I wonder if Spain look at people who live there and don't show any evidence of Spanish income?

"At this point, it all seems quite straightforward – recruit the non-UK individual, provide them with a UK employment contract and pay them on a gross basis via the UK payroll.

However, if an employee is performing duties in another country it is likely that they will be subject to tax in that country."

So, if I'm doing everything for UK, nothing to do with Spain, then my current HMRC/UK contract stuff should be fine? But then I have to think about the Spain side - do they care if someone lives there but doesn't pay income tax? I mean, that's similar to being unemployed - it's not like I will be claiming benefits but I guess there's services. Is there a way to contribute, like council tax, to the normal societal things?

I bet they do a sweep after Brexit, since they know perfectly well there will be expats who have tried to cut corners.

You probably need a local bank account and proof of income to rent, and you'd presumably want local health insurance, so it's hard to stay completely off their radar.

I've obviously no idea about this specifically. However, I remember I used to work for a company that had a very large offshoring of devs.
Whenever someone went out to India, they were really strict on getting them back in time (six months I think), as a single day longer could open them up to the risk of a large amount of tax payable - not only tax for that one person, but for other parts of their operations there.

I guess the ability to be able to do this seamlessly came under 'free movement', which we're fairly emphatically going to lose. Might you be able to fly under the radar from your employer and the tax man (here and Spain?). Seems unlikely, but who knows.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spain-tax-treaties

Anyone know what that means? I'm not reading/understanding 24 pages of legal/tax jargon.

You can also get an A1 certificate which lets you live elsewhere but maintain residency for tax purposes. No fucking clue what's going to happen with these post Brexit.

A1 certificate

Can't they do it smaller?

my current HMRC/UK contract stuff should be fine?

I think your HMRC status changes when you move abroad. The SRT rules are at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3 which will determine your UK status which probably matters when looking at any DTA.

If you were doing it the other way round and were resident in the UK for tax purposes (lived here for more than 183 days) but employed in Spain by a Spanish company then you would have to do things like an HRMC tax return. That doesn't mean there is any extra tax to pay (although there might be) but there would be a chunk of extra paperwork. I think you need to find yourself an accountant that specialises in these things.

Yeah, but if I was getting UK money still I could just dump that into a Spanish bank account and then pay whatever taxes and stuff Spain requires, no?
I wonder if my current company private health insurance will work if I'm in Spain when I have my heart attack?

Yeah, so there seems to be no point in me rushing because UK/EU laws are up in the air and I don't want to make a rushed decision with something so big.

I've got UK and AUD passports to use and potentially I'll be the spouse of an EU citizen so maybe that will help?

It seemed so simple in my head - working from Spain is the same as working from my garden - literally nothing should change. Of course the government ruins that simplicity.

None of the company private health insurance schemes I've been a member of in the past would help in the UK if I had a heart attack, let alone abroad. NHS all the way for that kind of thing.

They were amazing for getting some physio and an MRI of my dodgy knee though.

working from Spain is the same as working from my garden

I know someone who is doing it. He flies out to Valencia in a fortnight. His company are going to pay the air fare for him to visit the office in London once a month.

I used to work with a chap that did 2 months in South Africa, 1 month in Finchley.

I never asked any of them what the tax rules are.

"If you’ve been in the UK for 183 or more days you’ll be a UK resident."

So, I'd have to work here for 6 months to keep UK tax residence status.
That's like, summer and 5.5 months of winter. Fuck that.

So, it looks like I'd have to tell my company, hope they still wanted to pay me if I moved to Spain, sort out some kind of payment shit like the other international guys have and then worry about what Spain wants on top of that.

@hippy

I've done a fair bit of reading on this, (even though I took a different route). The simplest version is, the location you work for the majority of the year (183 days I think) is the only place you should pay tax. Regardless of where your contract is or the currency. I've got friends here who do just that - they get paid by a UK company and then at the end of the tax year (Dec 31st in Spain) they file taxes here. It means you have to keep money back, but then you need to do that anyway here because of the way the tax system works - you generally owe a little more than you pay from your pay check for some reason.

From an ethical point of view, I'd prefer to pay tax in Spain as (1) I'm living here and using the services it provides and (b) fuck paying tax to Boris.

Also, this is exciting, and a good reason to get residency here before the end of the year.

I can go into a whole lot more detail on it if need be, including the different routes for residency and English speaking accountants, if you need any help.

It seemed so simple in my head - working from Spain is the same as working from my garden - literally nothing should change. Of course the government ruins that simplicity.

And you can do this and not tell anyone. It just leaves you open to a lot of head aches in the future if anything more complicated than sitting in your garden comes up.

If you do become the spouse of an EU citizen, however, it would, potentially, be much easier (if you don't get residency as a UK citizen before). I presume that they can get residency in Spain via EU rights, which you should then be able to piggy back on to. I got my residency in Finland via UK/EU. My partner got hers via me and her Canadian passport (which I assume is more or less equal to Aus internationally).