Cargo Bikes

Pretty sure it is 135mm but the axle is long enough to respace.

Babboe and Christiana are popular round here in that 3-wheel format. I think the comments about wrestling the bike from stationary with two kids wriggling around are valid. Those 3-wheelers completely eliminate that as a thing.

Same goes for crossing narrow bridges over the river tributaries. Shat my pants more than once because of that!

I’ve only used a Bosch CX motor for many miles and rate it. don’t really have anything to compare it to though!

Worth checking out the local bike shops in your area, ie it would influence my decision quite a lot to know that I could get support from my lbs if required because they are a Bosch / magura dealer

Also worth speaking to Ben @ kinetics in Glasgow to get his 2 cents!

I know Ben from twitter - cool guy. I emailed him earlier and he recommended a Riese & Muller Packster 60. Ticks most of my boxes (though its a 2 wheeler) and has a bosch cx system. He has one at his shop and has offered a safely distanced demo - so will take him up on that!

Hang on hang on, you said 3-wheels, now we need to start all over again.

haha! wife wants 3... i'm hoping to convince her that we can do 2 safely

Great!

I’d only use a Bosch or shimano. Packster is cool, looks like a fun bike

The R&M are well built, easy to ride and very comfortable. You will need a geotechnical assessment for your storage space though, they're about the same weight as a house.

2 wheels are more stable than 3 on uneven ground. Ask me how i know! Seriously though, have nearly flipped several trikes/reverse trike designs, they are great at low speeds on predictable terrain but catching a wheel in a long thin pothole or slightly mis judging a square speed bump and you'll be tense! We have a very large trike in the shop which you are welcome to try and keep upright.
The butchers and bikes design i really like, I tried very very hard to flip and or break one last year and didn't succeed in either, price and turning circle are the downsides.
Infrastructure also isn't in the favour of the really large /wide bikes, loads of places where you can't get onto cycle paths or take the sneaky short cut because of the width.
Defo ride a nihola if you get the chance
there's at least 2 in the south side in very regular use and their owners wouldn't have anything else. They aren't for speed but great for kids +junk.
Our bullitt now has a full canopy setup that you can try if you haven't already.
Packster 60 is a bit shorter than a bullitt, Packster 80, the full long is the main r+m worth looking at. Think you can only get nuvinci though which are super not pleasant when off battery.
If you do go bosch, wait and get the new 2020 cargo specific motor, it has all the torques. I think the latest bosch is practically zero drag (like steps 6100/8000), but older ones have noticeable drag. Only applicable if you intend to ride off motor.
There's a new laser ply cutting guy in Stirling who is going to make cargo boxes (with bench) at a sensible price. Make your own roof though.

That's super useful, thank you. I wonder if the packster 80 might be too long for our space (240cm). Wheelbase is listed as 207.5 but 'overall length' is 269.5. Maybe with the front wheel turned?

Will be in touch about a test ride too!

it'll be in our garden, on top of woodchip (with two concrete sunk ground anchors for security) so shouldn't be a concern. Maybe actually a bonus if there's no battery in there it might be harder to steal?

It was a poor attempt at humour, but yeah they are very heavy. Now, they are family bikes, the Bosch motor is great and the brakes are very powerful, so it doesn't have to be a deal-breaker.
Even not loaded it's just not an agile bike that you can whizz though small gaps and between pot holes, that's all.

I don't know how old your youngest is but the Winther can accept a baby car seat facing the parent. Both Winther and Nihola can take a Weber seat, but it will be a little more cramped for the older kid in the Nihola.

Remember to keep your battery indoors as they don't like cold weather.
Same applies when charging your battery - it is better done at room temp.

I have learnt that the hard way on my Douze but found a decent place in France for replacement batteries https://doctibike.com/fr/

So much this. Instructions do say avoid low temps for storage (I think sub 8c is non ideal, and sub zero is a defo avoid if you can).
Have found battery dropping off a cliff and then stopping drive (but lights and shifts will continue for hours and hours after) when riding at night and the temps drop. A battery cosy isn't just a fashion statement they are defo useful in winter.
Our steps e8000 bike has been part used nice, and part abused in the battery dept. Run it with two 504wh units and the shimano steps software doesn't show any degradation yet, only done 1800/2000 miles though, soemtimes stored indoors sometimes left outside and its always cold here. At £500 a pop I should probably look after them more but I guess its useful knowledge to see how they fair in real world use in this climate.

Is this a good argument for avoiding nuvinci? These don't seem to work so well if the battery is done.

My battery will be kept indoors when not in use but it is <8c for at least 6 months of the year!

I have a Nuvinci on my Douze and I never had any issues - not sure where the hate comes from!!!

It rides OK without battery power?

I would avoid Nuvinci like the plague!!

I think they’re nothing but trouble. Maybe vince has been lucky.. or maybe it’s just user error :)

In regards to pedalling without assist, it is noticeably more difficult with Nuvinci, compared to rohloff which we’ve converted all the bikes to. Think the extra drag must have an impact on battery life too.

Also, it’s much easier to cruise above the assisted speed limit with the rohloff hub, which would also be battery friendly.

OK, next question - which bikes have gates drive but don't have nuvinci?

Urban Arrow XL - with Rohloff gear system 😎

Don’t even want to know how expensive that would be all be, +cx Bosch motor😬

Prob worth doing a test ride with @BrickMan down your for a ebullitt and maybe some other models. Kinetics are also do some of the eCargo bike models and have demo bikes.

I'd say a bullitt wouldn't be large enough for 2kids plus shopping. On mine I can get three of those large bag for life shopping bags on the deck with the seat folded up.

Someone mentioned to me the drag of Nuvinci hubs.

Having ridden only Sturmey Archer hubs before having a bike that is around 50kg on its own + on average 50kg worth of Champagne, I have to say that yes, there is some drag of sorts but not sure how much.

@MCamb Are you guys trying to compare a Mercedes Sprinter Van with a Mercedes AMG C 63?

I am sure the latter has less rolling resistance and is faster. Not sure how long it'll carry heavy loads for...

My experience with Nuvinci hasn’t been great.

Aside from hubs failing suddenly (and often inexplicably), I find that the inner cables have a tendency to get jammed in the shifter- then because the shifter is made of plastic one wrong twist can mangle the shifter internals, meaning the whole thing has to be replaced.

I find the whole cable changing procedure quite unpleasant. the gear range is somewhat narrow. The pawls in the freehub fail. There’s no system to drain and change the hub oil.

I haven’t tried the new cargo specific range of Nuvinci hubs- maybe they’ve sorted them out a bit?

I’m not familiar with those two models of Mercedes, so your analogy is a bit lost on me :). I’m comparing rohloff and Nuvinci (which are the only two I’ve tried) and from that would say the rohloff is worth the extra expense if it can be spared.

Is that 650x2.1 on the rear?

Agreed, Nuvinci sucks. The amount of flex inside the hub is also insane. Had it on a Butchers and Bikes for work a little while back. If the motor battery died, it felt like trying to ride it under water with a rubber band instead of gates belt.