General Election 2019

The party position on Brexit was a standout poor decision

Hyperglycemia too.

Joy of type 2.

In honesty, if they'd thrown in for remain for the referendum, this whole mess may well be academic.

The qualities leadership and indecision are not usually happy bedfellows.

Paul Mason’s politics are extremely unpopular.

I mean with voters (rather than Labour members).

The party position on Brexit was a standout poor decision

Great. Good start. Whats would you suggest as the stance Corbyn should have taken? One that would have kept the party together and garnered more support in this election?

Labour respects the decision of the people. We will leave the EU in 2020. This is how our exit differs from the Conservatives. Leaving the EU will allow Great Britain to do x, y, z. Only Labour has the empathy and understanding to leave the EU while making the right decisions for the British people. Shift the focus from the withdrawal agreement to the negotiations for future trade.

That sort of thing.

I agree entirely. That’s the vote winner. But it wouldn’t have held the party together.

Well, they didn't hold the party together anyway.

Yeah.

These are all arguments (as I see it) for Corbyn’s personal position: wanting to satisfy the unions and Leave areas, he fought hard for that then diplomatically would stfu in public. What a horrible man :)

The (partial) capitulation to pressure from remainers was probably fatal mistake. Now the same individuals are claiming vindication.

Well put, a lot of the mps wouldn’t have got behind that, people like Tom Watson constantly undermining corbyns position.

Which policies?

I guess it depends on how much integrity Corbyn has - there's no Brexit that doesn't have a negative impact on the economy, and the type of Brexit that was and is expected is one that reduces immigration to zero, which means the most financially damaging type of Brexit of the possible range. The fully priced manifesto counted on the countries finances being roughly in the state that they are today - that's very much not what would follow a thin FTA.

Therefore, if he'd gone full Workington Man Brexit he wouldn't have had his manifesto.

Of course, if he just wanted to win and fuck the truth (cf Johnson) then he could have embraced Brexit and his spending plans.

Len McClusky is a proper bellend. He's fucked a few Labour leaders over now.

Or... Now there is a withdrawal agreement passed by Parliament we will have a confirmatory referendum on this, where we will back remain. We believe it is in the best interest of the country to be part of the EU but it is important for the people to confirm such a momentous decision. If the country backs leaving with this deal we will implement it and negotiate for a strong future outside the EU. Etc...

Just looking at some numbers. The Tories added around 350k votes vs 2017. Labour lost around 2.6m. Lib Dems added around 1.3m.

There is a myth being built that Labours core vote deserted them for the Tories, but the topline movement in numbers doesn't seem to support that. More that Labour vote went to Lib Dem, Green, SNP and Brexit, or stayed at home, and that fracturing gave the Tories a landslide.

Has anyone seen a deeper analysis of where 2017 labour migrated to?

It looks like tactical voting failed completely.

Staying the bleeding obvious, but

• Labour needs a broad tent that stretches from the centre to the left.
  
• at the next election there will be an unusually high number of marginals, and opportunity for Labour to transform it's position.
  
• If tactical voting is to work it can't wait until the next election cycle starts. It needs an alliance of people working on it and promoting it from today onwards.
  

No party can win from the flanks.

Apart from the one that just has.

The Tories are not a strictly right wing party. They have a broad range of policies that stretch from the centre to the right.

This incarnation? Not a chance. They want a hard as possible Brexit so they can have a low tax, low wage, deregulated Labour market with minimal public services. All backed up by an isolationist immigration policy.

This narrative that the labour manifesto was far left needs to end. They were sensible, popular policies that will be good for everyone.

I don’t accept that dysfunction in the opposition was caused by Corbyn. The party had problems. The left has problems. What were his standout poor decisions?

He led. Every single decision about how/what/when things got done as well as all the policies are ultimately his responsibility. He and his team failed, which I think it the point of the article. He is not the only one at fault but he bears full responsibility.

I've just been going through the list of Conservative gains from Labour. Highly consistent pattern where the Labour party vote share as down 10%, split three ways between Tories, Bxp, and Lib Dems. Most of them they could retake just by reclaiming vote share from Lib Dems and Bxp.

Or... Now there is a withdrawal agreement passed by Parliament we will have a confirmatory referendum on this, where we will back remain. We believe it is in the best interest of the country to be part of the EU but it is important for the people to confirm such a momentous decision. If the country backs leaving with this deal we will implement it and negotiate for a strong future outside the EU. Etc...

Tl:dr sounds like fucking with the ref result. That hat looks Marxist congratulations you lost the election.