General Election 2019

the media is a fact of the british political landscape and nothing will change it

Then we're fucked. The idea that the next Labour leader will get an easier time from the press is madness. Throw in the unknown forces around internet ads and social media, and I'm more worried.

Yes, I think we actually are post-truth now, and whoever controls the most effective methods of reaching voters is going to be essentially impossible to beat.

But, is this true of other countries? If not, how do we become more like them?

Much of it I think it comes back to obvious short-comings of this particular labour leader.

I think labour needs a centre-left candidate who can deploy some demagoguery. The tories are most certainly beatable, johnson is unpopular.

demagoguery

Word of the thread. I'm using that down the pub later.

I think labour needs a centre-left candidate who can deploy some demagoguery. The tories are most certainly beatable, johnson is unpopular.

Who is this though

Cartoonist Polyp writes:

Here's my long, angry and bitter political rant about this
easily-predicted train wreck of an election result-

It's a virtue to be able to learn from experience.

Being open minded and willing to question your core beliefs, in the
light of new evidence, is a good thing. It is painful and requires
intellectual courage, but is ultimately strengthening. That isn't the
same as abandoning your core ethics.

Being pragamatic about how to acheive at least some of your objectives
under very difficult circumstances is not a betrayal of basic
principles.

Elevating feelings above thinking is not a virtue. Feelings may
motivate us, but if we want to make something happen, we have to also
use cold, detached reason to examine our strategies, and to change
them if the evidence indicates they may well fail.

Innacurate, short sighted ideologically driven models about what
motivates the populace leads to disasters when trying to persuade
them. We need to engage with people as they are, not lecture or scold
them for not being as politically pure as we see ourselves to be.

It is a very bad thing to avoid exposing your ideas to the critical
assessment of those who don't agree with those ideas, or to knee jerk
dismiss those critical assessments because they threaten your
emotionally invested world view.

Only ever talking to those who will re-inforce your assumptions and
your world view is a fatal mistake, and will guarantee you never spot
the flaws in your own thinking.

Digging into ideological trenches and branding anyone who disagrees
with your assumptions as a heartless bastard will persuade no-one. Not
everyone who disagrees with your interpretation of what's possible is
a callous shit. Many are just wary pragmatists.

The only way out of this mess is for it to become a cultural virtue
within 'left / social justice' circles to practice the habit of
skeptical thinking, particularly in relation to its own basic
assumptions. It doesn't produce easy or emotionally gratifying
results, but it's the best route to becoming more effective.

Dogma is fatal. It brings a warm internal glow of certainty, but
politically it's deadly. Trying to spot it in your own ways of
thinking is a brave, good thing to do.

Groupthink is something to be very ashamed of.

Rose tinted world views are self defeating.

And finally, yes, the Tory party elite are utter, callous, greedy
scum... but they are now in power with a robust majority, and it
should have been possible to easily defeat them.

Just seen Swinson's speech. All very well condemning nationalism and advocating for collaboration and working with your neighbours as some kind of moralistic swansong, but seems to be a troubling level of amnesia that she can't recognise her refusal to work with Labour and unrealistic ambition of becoming PM has seen her become an absolute mockery whilst also handing the Tories the keys to a large majority. Fucking twat.

We need to make Starmer angry. Very angry

Glad Zac lost his seat, a silver lining in an otherwise gloomy day.

^^^

It really seems to be a one way street atm, where was the skeptical thinking in Brexit, the NHS promises, the Tory budget, the rampant racism, the toxic media, the responses to Windrush, 10 years of a toxic government, enough Brexit data, and people still go for it? Wow. What do you even do there?

And for the record, I've been polite with people I disagree with, I doubt people are pure racists, the writer has good points, sometimes there is no "ideal" choice, there are areas I agree with in some Lexit and the work Brexiter actually has areas I agree with too, so I don't want to stereotype people.

But you gotta own your shit too. The reaction to "oh did you know x people are going to be deported" is one of "no that won't happen" actually... "oh, no I don't believe it". Well it's the law, so yeah...?

Exposing you to others is quite tiring, I have many activists on my Facebook (bloody lefties...) and it is hard graft. I follow the 3million and the pure nonsense of the UK and Dutch politicians around issues, wow, it really does take a thick skin.

I don't always have the energy but it was "refreshing to see this discussion about immigration w/o anybody being called a racist" yeah that was a response to a post of mine.

The huge shit fest of propaganda makes the job even harder. It is all coming down on non Conservatives/right to be "reasonable" in an assymetrical war of words.

/rant over.

Starmer Smash! :)

He has general appeal I'd love him to be the next Labour leader.

dont know. But i think one of the things that makes people like cummings/johnson formidable is their ideological flexibility. We need a power hungry, charismatic but fundamentally empty vessel!

Anyone else make a killing on the surge of the pound last night...

We need a power hungry, charismatic but fundamentally empty vessel!

A pre-war Tony Blair, backed by Mandleson, Campbell and that other bloke who went off to become a psychologist or something.

The idea that the next Labour leader will get an easier time from the press is madness

There are likely people in the Labour party who will get an easier time. Not the free pass that Johnson got, but a much easier time than an old school 70's socialist will get. We know that the press will get behind a certain type of Labour party because they've done it before, and for a long time, with Blair. Pointing this kind of stuff out though is Centrist Dad territory, I know.

He was literally the worst person that could have been chosen to parade in front of the media. You can argue that that's unfair and shouldn't matter as much as you want, but it's what the leaders have to deal with.

I'm a member of a Forex trading WhatsApp group and there's a lot of hooting going on in there.

Fully expect to be mocked in the gold club thread but I'm conveying this because I think it's important for people to know how well a minority are doing out of the last few years.

I know a man who's £20m+ up as a fairly direct result of the Brexit referendum.

EDIT: various trading Discord groups I follow seem pretty stoked too.

My mum likes him. She sent me a message this morning telling me that she couldn't have voted for Corbyn but would have for Starmer.

dont know. But i think one of the things that makes people like cummings/johnson formidable is their ideological flexibility. We need a power hungry, charismatic but fundamentally empty vessel!

Which will do wonders for the environment, NHS, poverty and inequality, education, the housing crisis, etc..

Love him or, as most do, hate him, Corbyn did wonders at getting policies which are important to the fore. Dumping these in the hopes of squeezing a few votes from the ever shrinking middle and an endorsement from The Economist is not my idea of progress (nor do I think it would really lead to electoral success - you'd see a surge in votes for the Greens).

Corbyn did wonders at getting policies which are important to the fore

Did he really, outside the Labour echo chamber (I don't know as I exclusively inhabit it) Which ones stuck during his leadership? Which ones will we see enacted? Which Tory policies did he influence or soften?

My mum likes him

I bet she does. Waaaaaaaay amiright?

He was literally the worst person that could have been chosen to parade in front of the media. You can argue that that's unfair and shouldn't matter as much as you want, but it's what the leaders have to deal with.

And people said this about Miliband before him. And Brown before him.

Blair isn't coming back. And shouldn't. He courted the press with politics which they wanted to get behind. If you want those politics parties already exist which profess them.

I Keep having waves of optimism thinking everything is going to be ok, 5 years etc etc... then next second the realisation of the climate emergency smashes me in the face.

And I quote

Kier Starmer - love him - I would have voted for him.

Did he really, outside the Labour echo chamber (I don't know as I exclusively inhabit it) Which ones stuck during his leadership? Which ones will we see enacted? Which Tory policies did he influence or soften?

Eh? I'm confused. What do you think I've just claimed? Bringing something to the fore does not mean it comes into fruition.