EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Chile and the DRC might be better cases ^^

The current situation regarding drugs, illegal/prescription/legal isn't that much of a looker either though. Trying to restrict the sale of highly-addictive and sought-after substances through supply-side restrictions has never had a particularly good track record. Unless you're a gangster, in which case it's the best thing ever.

^ fucking memeworthy. How do you think we emerged from fudalism?

This is such a glaring flaw with the arguments of all free-market fetishists/libertarians. The logical endpoint of completely deregulated capitalist society is, as Nick Hannauer puts it, "a police state or a revolution". People who apparently pride themselves on their commitment to freedom seem really happy with neo-feudal society where we're all in hock to the super-rich through rentier capitalism (this short story is well worth a read on that front). The only reasonable explanation is that they think a vastly unequal society is somehow just, just as long as they're at the top of it. It's at that point we get right into "first-up-against-the-wall" territory.

And even then, competition has lead to the arse falling out of the drug industry for all but the biggest dealers.

People supporting gross inequality often aren't at the top of the pile but there is an aspiration to be so. The fact that social mobility is declining doesn't seem to matter.

And indeed it's the mission of the various astro-turfing operations to make those at the bottom support the rights of those at the top of the income distribution to pay very little tax etc.

cf the American Dream, which has done more to keep Americans in poverty than pretty much any other myth.

Yup, it's the billionaires managing to convince people that they'd happily accept higher taxes, but it would be bad for the little guy.

But surely, when governments intervene in markets it's not ideal either?

Name a functioning market without government.

China. But at the price of what? Freedom.

... suggesting a/ that the 'population lifted from poverty' isn't a perfect metric by which to judge a regime. b/ Liberal capitalism doesn't have a monopoly on lifting populations from poverty. So, on inspection ... 'population lifted from poverty' is a really weird argument to make.

b/ neoliberal capitalism doesn't have a monopoly on lifting populations from capitalism

....poverty... FTFY

Well put

what does astro-turfing mean?

The generation of fake grass roots movements.

Yep edited. ta.

Likewise anarco capitalists never seem to propose that on "Day-One" everyone starts with the same assets/wealth. The proposition always implicitly assumes that we start with our current assets - and one assumes it's supporters have both capital and education.

Whereas if the theory was sound there would be no reason not to all start on a equal footing, at least from a financial POV anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/brexit-hits-uk-ski-and-holiday-staff-overseas

Companies packing in as they can't get UK temp staff (paying UK taxes) working seasonally abroad if Brexit goes ahead.

Job losses, less tax income, the usual...

What point are you trying to make Thom?

That’s quite an impressive level of stupidity.

There's an argument that a lot of people were relatively happy living a self sustained life from the land, obviously it sucked a bit for healthcare, public transport, roads, welfare, pensions etc. but they weren't exactly products of rampant capitalism That enclosed free land and moved everyone into towns and cities so that they could be exploited for their labour from a young age and live in actual squalor before some of them were raised out of it with socialist policies, such as healthcare, transport, roads, welfare, pensions, unfortunately that massive drive to produce and consume and grow has exploited other parts of the world and left them in squalor and exploited the actual world which will run out of resources at some point leaving nowhere for capitalism to turn. Capitalism may be better than feudalism, especially for supporting much larger populations but it hardly works well, it's just what there is now and what we're likely stuck with for a while to come.

Jesus, there's no point putting this twit in ignore if you lot keep quoting him.

By now I wonder if you are just trolling.

"Just more fear-mongering over Brexit." Those jobs are gone, you can split hairs over the numbers yes, but it is not good news is it?

"fears of Brexit" yes by the business owners. And it is explained why, it is a staffing issue for them. Who do you think they talked to, 1700 Sun readers?

It makes it clear in the article that it will be hard to get seasonal UK workers. So, some businesses are packing up/closing.

Would other businesses take the place? Yes, but they won't hire UK workers due to Brexit. So there will be job losses for UK workers.

Brexit was sold as a low-risk project, not a "oh well job losses" project.

Show me some actual job gains that offset all the losses.

Jesus, there's no point putting this twit in ignore

There are two typos there.

Ha.

How far back are you going here!? Just out of interest.

Now.

Just to throw some anecdotal experience into the mix, when I was younger I lived along side a small tribe in the Bolivian jungle. #csb

They lived a perfectly happy high quality life - far above the average person elsewhere in the country. They benefited from some elements of trade/capitalism - bullets, petrol for chainsaws, batteries, but those really were incidental.

The biggest impact for them had been the granting of land rights - effectively giving them the right to reside on the land they had always occupied.

Obviously that lifestyle is only possible for a few. But it's ignorant to think only capitalism can deliver high quality lifestyles.

You should read some of Yuval Noah Harari's books to get a better understanding of how human societies have developed.

(Or you'll cherry-pick an economist who predicts Brexit will be a "disaster").

That's the thing though, the only people who need to cherry-pick are Brexit supporters. The overwhelming consensus is a negative economic impact. The discussion is how bad and for how long.

"It was a risky project that is for certain" OK good, then you actually paid attention to detail.
"easiest trade deal ever" "350 m for the NHS" etc... a lot of people DID believe that.

But since nearly all economists and banks predict Brexit is not an economic success in the medium term (predicting after 10 years is nearly impossible) I am not cherry picking here.

What did you want to get out of it?

Because as an immigrant (you know 10s of thousands of people will not know the settled status deadline and become illegal immigrants...the home office knows too) who could not vote (but WAS a handy dog whistle) and lives in Northern Ireland (yeah, there's this border thing and this our economy is going to hit very hard and the having many of the poorest areas in the UK thing) the impact on me is severe.

What have you gained or try to gain?

Edit: YOUR VOTE caused this. Own up. Complain about it to your MP at least.