EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Johnson went down hill rapidly in the second half.

Just a bit.

Question about lies was gold.

Leaving to one side your class problem, what don’t you like about JOB?

Sorry if this isn’t a very direct response. Much shit-talked..

I witness privilege, sexism, some racism. Definitely some ignorance of culture. Clearly I realise everyone has a different experience but I see prejudice in all sorts of directions in ordinary, mundane situations. I’m really not sure there are special groups. The data doesn’t hold up, maybe it too difficult to measure? Well, maybe ... but do you think you think that young ppl, old ppl, ugly, or short people, those with regional accents or the millions without a fixed address, a parental safety net, the undereducated, those permanently injured or with medical conditions, the unemployed, young mothers etc find no prejudice?

I’m not sure it’s actually very important but if you believe that ‘inverse racism’ is impossible (an illogical position) then the burden of proof is with you. IMHO you’re a prick for even taking the stance. Humans seem to find all the reasons to be dicks.

If you choose on balance to ignore certain prejudice then fine, but that’s some ideological, intersectional shit. You should be comfortable-with and honest-about that. I‘m really not into it.

Not sure it's impossible, just improbable considering who we are and where in the world we live and the history of that place.

Got to be Mamnick

The same thought had occurred to me, but while the overall level of cuntitude is similar, the style is different. Less confident and, I would say, less obnoxious. Still a total cockwomblegit, but probably just another bog-standard hungry troll who needs feeding.

If "left school at 16" wants to bring his fact-light opinion into a debate with people who know what they're talking about, that's entirely on him. He knew who he was calling.

Yep. Having respect for stupid people necessarily invokes respecting their right to be themselves. I.E. Fucking stupid.

Douglas Murray in the Spectator, and you expect to be taken seriously?

Same lack of any substance though, simply posting links to far right content when asked what he thinks.

I think "swivel-eyed loon" is a more accurate description of Murray.

A magazine that happily employs outspoken antisemite Taki Theodoracopulos.

Get better sources.

I think your post could be shortened to “I had no idea”.

You don’t like JOB as his stock in trade is exposing hollow ideologues such as yourself, where as you like Clarkson (a significantly more tenured member of the upper middle class than JOB) because he doesn’t challenge you, and you are almost entirely made of groundless vanity twinned with an inferiority complex of hideous strength.

The guy who wrote a whole book about how Europe's liberals are letting the continent be overrun by hostile Muslims who are replacing the native population?

Yeah I don't understand how anyone could think he might be right-wing either.

Relying on opiniin pieces as 'proof' is a standard troll tactic though. He hasn't started sockpuppetry yet. If it was That Mamnick Twat I think we would have had some imaginary friends coming along to play by now. I'm still going for standard right wing troll trying to get a rise rather than the return of the Mam Tour Cockwomble.

We’ll see - acid test is if he can actually come up with an opinion of his own rather than cribbing from some standard RWNJ mouthpiece.

Yeah, but relativity is true whether you believe so or not and its effect isn't really subject to being altered. Part of the interesting thing about sociological theories is that the way in which they influence society is dependent on how they are widely understood and consequently how they shape public opinion and policy. For example the fact that there are some very intelligent American theologians sitting in their university departments elaborating on very nuanced views on the nature of christianity does not change the fact that the the common US view of god as a belligerent, judgemental beardy bloke on a cloud leads to those "christian" values causing a huge amount of misery. We can discuss the validity of the theories in an abstract sense, but we also have to deal with their effects on the ground.

Absolutely. And if we were talking about religion I'd agree with you. I think our difference of opinion is really over the extent to which people misuse identity politics for bad or dishonest reasons. I say this happens in the vast rarity of cases, and only on the extremes - most people take from it what's intended, though as you'd expect, it's the extremes you hear from more often. I'd imagine you say it happens more often than not - in which case we just disagree about frequency.

So that's an argument in favour of eradicating identity politics altogether.

Is it?! That's a very strange reading of that quote, which is from an article entitled "Identity politics has veered away from its roots. It's time to bring it back". My take is that it means exactly what it says i.e., that the expression of one's lived experience adds a limited amount to the debate if it's not backed up with a sound wider analysis.

Well that's a conclusion I'd agree with - analysis tells us what's true, whereas lived experience tells us what that truth FEELS like. But I only read the quote, which said:

"A worldview that moves us closer to equality doesn’t stem from living in a certain kind of body"

And I say it's one of the two things it stems from. Without an understanding of how someone else's reality FEELS to them, you can't really have a polite conversation with them about the analysis. If you just look at cold hard facts you end up in a situation like I saw on Question Time the other day where a white public schoolboy was telling a black panellist that the UK was one of the least racist countries on earth. He was right, as far as he went, but it was a tone deaf thing to say at the time. That's why identity politics IS important - not in terms of the raw truth but in terms of knowing when to speak, and when to listen.

I'll have a read of that piece now.

Relying on opinion pieces as 'proof' is a standard troll tactic though.

Well put.

Called it already.
https://www.lfgss.com/comments/15006126/

I don’t think they appreciate the irony

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you are almost entirely made of groundless vanity twinned with an inferiority complex of hideous strength.

Loved this

As the most important election in generation approaches the need for ever more nuanced analysis grows all the more urgent.

hey echo chamber
(since this seems to be the most active politics thread)
is anyone canvassing?
I'm travelling to Thurrock tomorrow and trying to do a few more days before Thursday. Wouldn't mind meeting some forumengers.

No one does anything. It’s all talk. Innit.

The best one yet!