In the news

Isn't this just the next out there bill designed to be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court, with the sole intent of overturning Roe versus Wade.

To the extent that the text of the bill, while batshit crazy and abhorrent, is almost irrelevant.

almost irrelevant

That's my understanding of all these laws.

There is zero intention of actually implementing them in a real sense. It's just a vehicle for appeal.

Smart, but utterly depressing, move.

Wait, but what's the strategy here? Surely if a bill is so batshit crazy it has less chance of being agreed by the supreme court? I don't get it, but must be missing something

Wait, but what's the strategy here

Get the story in the news - get as much publicity as possible - you won't do that unless it is as crazy as it can be. And imply an underlying message that they will pass worse and worse, more draconian legislation each time until they get their way - is pretty much how I've taken it.

Wasting everybody's time, and pushing out doctors is the game here.

But remember kids, the USA "pro-life" movement is -totally- not sexist...as long as the evil doctors go away, the women can't have an abortion and why would women need agency anyway?

Appeals will come down to a specific point of law, not necessarily a general "yes Mrs. A gets 5yrs for X crime".

(From wiki) Roe v. Wade said women in the United States have a fundamental right to choose whether or not to have abortions without excessive government restriction.

The idea with these bills is to create new case law with either overturns that decision, or create a new precedent that defines the boundaries around abortion to make elements of them prohibitable.

why would women need agency anyway?

Because it comes at the expense of another life.

Life being defined as........?

You know IVG zygotes have no rights, right?
And even pregnancies over 24 weeks have no rights?

But somehow an ectopic pregnancy which has 0 chance superceded all the rights a woman has?
And so does a very early pregnancy?
And the only reasoning is "well you had sex, so... deal with it"?

Life is extremely poorly defined. Of course it is, if the pro-life movement was more honest, the discussion would get quite technical and people would not be so easily convinced.

A citizens assembly in Ireland where people were informed by all groups led to the new laws over there.

But since Norn Ire has had a defacto abortion ban, I am happy to dig out a page with stories from real woman being forced to travel and ones that were chased to England because a very much wanted pregancy has no choice.

That's also a reason yes, as there is no very strong constitution they are trying to precedent spam abortion into legal oblivion.

But since Norn Ire has had a defacto abortion ban

Not any more: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124

Yep, has had.

It is not in effect yet, all court cases around abortion have been thrown out, but nothing has been implemented yet.

So in the meantime, there is no real access yet. There are doing a consultation atm.

Sorry, had managed to not see the word "had" in your post and read it as "has a defecto abortion ban".

Reports of gunfire at London Bridge. Hope it's not serious.

Reported shooting on London Bridge. Suspect shot dead according to photos on twitter

https://twitter.com/AmandaHunter87/status/1200419495338266625

https://twitter.com/breakingnalerts/status/1200423080910299140?s=12

Perhaps a heads up. Pretty full on.
Hopefully the officer struggling on the floor is ok

To be clear, I'm "pro-choice" (if that's how we term it). I'm just making the point that you are balancing competing rights. That unborn children are classified in a way that prevents them having legal rights does not impact on any theoretical moral rights.

Life is extremely poorly defined. Of course it is, if the pro-life movement was more honest, the discussion would get quite technical and people would not be so easily convinced.

TBH I'm not sure of that. Balance of harm is an easy case to argue. Life is much more nuanced. I would be extremely surprised if classifying how alive embryos are was a swaying factor for the ROI compared to the societal repressions from abortions being illegal.

Grim. Outside my office window

bbc radio eyewitnesses saw nothing don't know whats going on and are looking at the underside of a table, thanks bbc

stay safe out there

There's very clear, and graphic, footage on Twitter of the man being held down by four or five members of the public and at least 3 coppers, until the coppers pull the last civilian off and shoot the suspect. One of the aiding civilians has a large knife which seems to have been taken off the suspect.

yikes!

just as well i shirked from home today.

The footage is shocking. Can't really get my head round being in anyone's shoes there.

Shocking stuff. Any other casualtlys? The videos on social media are nuts

Wait, they had the chance to capture him alive (or recapture as the civilians sound like they had him)