Musk is a cunt and Tesla are shit

Yep no1 gives a flying fuck about that. Its all down to running costs.

I might be driven a bit by consumers chosing to pay more for green electrcity (Good Energy)
I don't think it will be driven at all by consumers choosing cheap green enegy tariffs, as many of these are just feeding off the green energy already on the market due to other reasons.
It will never be driven to a significant degree by consumers as a whole - consumers as a whole are driven by price and convenience.

This is both true of electric vehicles and energy supply. We need to either take the choice away for consumers (banning conventional engines / mandating certain energy mix) or by making the green option cheaper to consumers, either by subsidy or by taxing the competitor.

What's the price difference between a golf and an egolf or whatever one you factor in fuel costs, especially if you can steal electric off your neighbors or one of those on street chargers?

I have heard lots of quotes about how electric cars have a massive impact on air quality and the environment, but as far as I can see it is a selling point and not based in fact. There are no exhaust emissions at a local level, and that's it. They have batteries and lots of technology that is extremely carbon and or energy dependent to make, and which has a finite lifespan.

Here's one report into the comparison

There are no exhaust emissions at a local level, and that's it.

The areas with the poorest air quality tends to match population and vehicle density. Removing exhaust emissions at that level will be a significant factor on air quality where it matters most to individuals.

First off, you need to split emissions in two - you've got air quality emissions and you've got climate change emissions - they are two different beasts.

One big bonus of electric vehicles is no tailpipe pollutants to give us cancer/asthma. What is less talked about is that a significant amount vehicle based emissions actually come from tyres, brakes and road wear - we can still expect this when we go electric -all the more argument to use cars less regardless!

On the climate change side, CO2 always needs to be looked at in a bigger picture - on the one hand, using electricity generated by a gas power station to power your car is still loads better than using petrol in terms of CO2.

On the other hand, is more CO2 emitted during the production process of an electric vehicle than a conventional vehicle? I'd imagine yes, but I don't know when the break even point is reached.

As our electricity grid gets increasingly greener, and production becomes more efficient, that break even point should get narrower.

What about the causes of poor air quality from vehicles other than exhaust pipes?
What about the air quality away from where the car is being used and what about the other environmental impacts?
Finding alternatives to so many vehicles will have a much greater impact.

As our electricity grid gets increasingly greener, and production becomes more efficient, that break even point should get narrower.

And Musk despite being a cunt, produces all his own electricity for Tesla factories. (Obviously other emissions still exist in making batteries, mining materials etc)

You aren't really getting green but the supplier will buy the REGO's which are certificates that the energy was renewably generated and if the supplier retires the REGO's it means it can only get sold once as green electricity. All sorts of wonky shit goes on with green energy and double counting but it can be done effectively. The fudge is, say their customers use 1GWh a year of energy, they can buy 1GWh of REGO's but it could for arguments sake be all from solar farms, so was only produced in day light hours but they are saying it is the equivalent to what there customers used over the whole day.

The infrastructure just isn't there to support 24/7 renewables yet and won't be for a long time. Gas will be doing the heavy lifting for times of peak demand and low renewable output for a long time yet even if your energy tariff claims otherwise. We could get there a lot sooner with nuclear but seeing that hitachi and toshibi have both pulled out of new build nuclear in the UK recently, we are pretty screwed on that front.

Thats a big deal though for those living in an urban environment. While you may be shifting emissions from tail pipe to power station, power stations are generally located with far fewer receptors and with far greater dispersion of the pollutants. It still isn't great but it is better for many people with breathing issues.

You're smerging air quality and co2 with that statement. See my previous comment.

A gas fired power station is not a major source of air quality type pollutants, but does pump out loads of climate change causing co2.

A diesel or petrol car manages to pump out both co2 and particulates and gasses that cause problems for human health.

Its really important that people understand the difference between Air Quality and CO2. Its the entire reason diesel was iniyally pushed (lower co2 than petrol) but now hated (generally worse for AQ).

I was think more of NOx, a coal fired power station would pump out massive NOx but it doesnt cause the same issue as NOx in an urban environment

EVs will never be as cheap as ICE, not in the recent future

I was wondering about that,
and,
downloaded this
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2015-11-26/17799/

I struggled to understand the units for NOx,
then noted the question had been answered by Andrea Leadsom,
so gave up.

According to this
https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/electric-vehicles-from-life-cycle
The breakeven is 44k-70k km

I expect its faster if you are mainly charging overnight when its going to be mainly nuclear and offshore wind generation

I'm not as involved in medicine as Elusabeth Holmes or in U.S. government as Donald Trump, either. Somehow I cope.

Thank god for you.

Not having sold as many bikes as Dani Foffa just puts it all into perspective.

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyperloop-tunnel-is-now-just-a-normal-1835024474

Yes, for those keeping score, in a mere two years we’ve gone from a futuristic vision of electric skates zooming around a variety of vehicles in a network of underground tunnels to—and I cannot stress this enough—a very small, paved tunnel that can fit one (1) car.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/22/cybertruck-tesla-unveils-the-pickup-truck-we-have-to-have

lol

Oh dear.

All of their cars are butt ugly. I wonder if the Ford Mustang Mach E, which is nearly identical spec and cost to a Model Y, will outsell the Tesla because its not butt fugly?

can I just ask, please don't sick burn me, but does anyone know what the plan is to dispose of the batteries at the end of their useful life is? The other thing nobody seems able to tell me is what are the likely outcomes if the vehicle enters a watercourse or has a significant RTC.
Ive asked lots of manufacturers and their reps, and while I know the basics of how to isolate the system, there are question marks about residual charge in the system and earthing.....
Its relevant to me as im a firefighter and water rescue technician....

RTC

What's an RTC?

Hasn't there been a couple of horrible accidents with teslas where they catch fire and it's been really hard to put out? Spoke to my neighbour who's a firefighter who mentioned something along these lines

road traffic collision i guess...

I worked on the UI of that car :D they had a tesla in the design studio to rip off and make better. Plus Ford can scale better have a huge dealer network and Tesla once you actually sit in one feel just ‘cheap’.