Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

do you like horse shit pounding you in the face? ;)

who doesn't?!

True and it's a format the Fargo has done well with for a long time. I just wouldn't want an off-road bike that feels like it's holding you back on the good trails (and tbh that's a personal thing but for me just having drops and that sort of geometry is a limitation vs what a 29x2.2 can handle on a rigid MTB) . Even the TD has some trails that are fun on the right bike, most tour+explore type of rides do. Anyway, all so subjective isn't it. Niches are good, means more of us get the bike we want.

I think drop bars aren't as big a deal as people make out. If drop bars are really holding you back that much that you need flat bars, you're probably wanting a suspension fork as well.

Tyres are different, you get extra traction, comfort, tyre choice wherever you're riding. I mean, everyone now accepts that 47mm 650b tyres are a good choice in the right circumstances, so I don't know why the same logic would not apply to 55mm MTB tyres (which is what 2.2" is)

Agreed, off road, any descents and get on the drops. Locked in, loads of brake leverage, it’s ideal. I prefer it to a flat bar for what I ride - the quantocks / triscombe trails, but if I wanted to go faster flat bar would aid this for the steeper stuff

I can barely fit my Di2 cables into the space left with a BSA30 BB in a BSA shell.

I think it's as much about geometry as sus forks, but yeah, agreed. On the tyres point I think 650x47 or so works well as it helps road-like geometry stay possible and it's 'big enough' if the bikes fairly road-biased. Bigger wheels cope better with bigger bumps though. It's the other big pros-cons thing alongside bar type.

What they've basically done is flat out copied the Trek 1120 and stuck drop bars on it

Right down to the fork mounting system

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Front half yes!

reminds me of this:

Damn, bikes be gettin' ugly. My bikes will be winning beauty contests if this is how shit's going.

is there anything that could make this bike more fred?

Yes. Rear view mirrors. On long spindly stalks.

Being owned by @amey

Interesting to see how bikes like that Mason are trying to find space for carrying stuff. That one has the mudguard rack and the cargo cage bosses under downtube, while the Cutthroat has a rather limited gap between the tube and front tyre, to have bigger frame bag. And Curve Gmx, that's kind of a similar bike, has shorter fork to have bigger front triangle.

Fugly and rather spenny. Not my cup of tea.

Yeah, the Mason was announced about a year ago I think, so the Trek was first. And before those there was the English/ @Black_Rainbow_Project custom fork mounted drybag rack.

And decades before that there were the French touring bikes with mudguards that had racks integrated :D

Err, no.

It was you that sent those flowers over on Valentine's Day though, wasn't it? Admit it, you've got a semi on for the fuggers.

First fork mounted drybag specific rack, first fully bolt on specific frame, top tube, front rack bags/mounts, first commercially available (in small quantities) harness style saddlebag, first integrated, stem mounted aerobar rests (granted this is a niche one), first front rack mounted, rear facing bottle cage mounts (another niche one).... And the bloody thing has barely gone anywhere!... And nowhere near the tour divide it was designed for. :(

Do you have shares in Mason or something?

Of course stuff comes around, ideas get recycled. But then there's just copying.

Is that a restrap saddle bag? 😉

Referring to those vintage mudguards was more of a joke, I mostly agree, looking at those it really does seem Mason copied the Trek, who maybe took inspiration from that English. Maybe I wasn't taking this seriously enough as I don't like the idea of a front rack on a bike like those that much. Though the idea of a rack made to fit a round drybag or maybe a tent is interesting.

But I can not refrain from pointing out that the Trek basically looks like a Helkama Helsinki

And those racks look a lot like those of Nextbike

Yeah not even remotely the same thing but amusing that it's so similar. Like the public bike share bikes that have bars that look a bit like Jones loop bars.

That bike really is nice. Especially for 2013.

Both the mason and the salsa are rank "just get an MTB" things. Pls back to gravel bikes