Extinction Rebellion

Limit their action to those which are least likely to create a negative perception among the public.

Look at the anti-Trump protests as an example that was generally well received by the wider public. Not saying they need to copy it, but there are lots of way to keep people on board.

I voted against the action in Canning Town on the tube and thought it was a terrible idea just like 90% of XR participants. Why? Because people will be completely unable to see past it and bleat on and on about it, not focusing on the issue at hand and the 3 aims of XR. The other actions have been very effective.

The only reason I mentioned that event was because there are comments about how powerful people aren't listening to the message. My first hand experience is that they are. I don't see those people as any more important than people with less power. They just have more capacity to enact widespread change immediately.

Im not going to repeat the clear link between non violent civil disobedience and systemic change. If you read back on this thread or on the XR website, more than enough people have dealt with that point. As I said, constantly repeating a point is utterly boring.

Target the wealthy, privileged, and politically powerful. Not one of the most underprivileged areas in the UK. I'd like to cite Wikipedia on this:

Canning Town however remains among the 5 per cent most deprived areas in the UK, with many long term residents suffering from poor health, low education and poverty.

Especially if you're claiming to be 'woke' to the whole context of capitalism, how is it defensible to cause more disruption to the lives of some of the poorer parts of London? It just feels intrinsically wrong. It feels like self-appointed saviours from more privileged backgrounds preaching to mostly less privileged people, merrily ignoring the actual power structure of the country.

Great idea! How can do that?

the clear link between non violent civil disobedience and systemic change

The problem is that this 'non violent civil disobedience' is usually supposed to be a tactic used by the oppressed against their oppressor (and by the way, even there I'm personally not so convinced that the non-violent approach really is that effective, but... I don't want to be done for inciting violence). This just does not hold true here.

Because people will be completely unable to see past it and bleat on and on about it, not focusing on the issue at hand and the 3 aims of XR.

'See past it'? What do you mean 'see past it'? Isn't the entire point that people should not see past it, but have the whole action be very 'in their face' and not to be missed?

Well yeah, no shit blocking Canning Town doesn't really serve to advertise the 3 aims of XR, especially as those weren't exactly prominently on display.

Also, one thing you seem to be missing: whether you like it or not, the people 'bleating on and on about it' are the people you are trying to convince to get on your side and ultimately vote the right way / put pressure on politics in a way that will actually force change.

How about blocking Bank during peak banker commuting times, rather than Canning Town while all the cleaners are trying to get to work? (Yes, I'm simplifying a bit, but you get my point)

How about focusing more action on political buildings? Or buildings associated with the elite? Blockade Eton, ffs, but not Canning Town.

I 100% agree on this. I guess there are a few people that are eager beavers and every group will get some nutters in (e.g. the labour party).
I do think its important to their message that everybody is disrupted a bit though.
This tube stuff is clearly a mistake in my opinion, I would have gone for some none rush hour activity, see how people like being stuck at work!

great! see you there!
( I think thats how XR works. less talking, more doing)

I voted against the action in Canning Town on the tube and thought it was a terrible idea just like 90% of XR participants. Why? Because people will be completely unable to see past it and bleat on and on about it, not focusing on the issue at hand and the 3 aims of XR.

This has been my point the entire way. Actions like these turn some people against XR, and potentially against all climate activism. If XR didn’t use these kinds of tactics so much then I wouldn’t have a problem with them.

https://twitter.com/aslefunion/status/1184744819274452992?s=21

I voted against the action in Canning Town on the tube and thought it was a terrible idea just like 90% of XR participants.

So is this real?

Also do you know if Canning Town was targeted due to it being an open platform and (I assume) reducing the risk of trains/people blocked underground?

my point is a list of better actions is better than a list of (all the same) reasons why this latest action didn't work.

Yeah no thanks, I'm pretty reliant on not getting arrested and deported. But you know, if you're someone who's essentially planning on getting arrested anyway, you might as well do that somewhere that doesn't feel like you're adding to the dynamic of fucking over poorer people.

I think that's the problem. To have any chance of achieving the goals like zero carbon emissions in 5 or even 10 years you have to create an extremely oppressive society and a war time style economy focused on that one goal. Most people realise something should be done but at the same time think "let's see what happens, maybe I am one of the lucky ones".

Just look at todays reaction at the tube station and imagine the reaction when all petrol cars are banned within a year.

Yes that is real. Alot of actions have been voted on by polls on Telegram, 'citizens assemblies' in person at sites etc.

I don't know why they went for Canning Town and think it may be because they were trying to target Canary Wharf. Misguided and silly. Unlike the rest of the excellent and effective actions this last week and in April

On the one hand yes, on the other hand deflecting any criticism by saying "why don't you do it better" is also the laziest possible defence. And my point, again, isn't that the entire XR movement is bad and shouldn't exist - not at all. But there definitely needs to be thought about what public perception of some of the actions is going to be, and the internal logical consistency of some of the actions.

Interesting that you relate it to war.

WWII and the solidarity of the British experience is something often referenced by the Brexitiers. TBH even older people I know who are anti-Brexit but remember post-war rationing etc. have a certain fondness for that Blitz spirit.

Could that trope be used by climate activists?

I mean if Cameron could run on a we're all in this together platform, why can't that narrative be co-opted by XR/similar?

why can't that narrative be co-opted by XR/similar?

Because it’s miserable.

So I suppose yeah why not.

how about an international corpse day where we all lie still for an 8 hour period to represent how dead we'll all be.

It's similar to war in the sense that you need to regear the economy to one target. Look at all that is currently dependent on fossil fuel, that will all have to be replaced and not just by ordering a replacement from China. The use of things that will be declared unnecessary and harmful will have to be punished in very draconian public ways. The time frame doesn't really leave any time for "incentives" etc. It's more an Army in the streets scenario than some extra choices at Tesco.

https://twitter.com/BinAnimals/status/1184545637611773955?s=19

This must be fake right?

Or as I like to call it...Sunday

John McDonnell’s comment on the The 3rd runway at Heathrow which is coming up for judgement at the court of appeal:

"I think legislatively things have moved and politically, with the current campaigning by Extinction Rebellion, the pressure is on all politicians to recognise this is a project that cannot stand,” McDonnell said.

Looks like XR's tactics are at the very least contributing to actual concrete change. Helped by loads of other organisations of course. That's a positive at least?

That's a positive at least?

If it actually has, absolutely. It doesn't automatically validate every single action done under the XR flag, but yes, that is a positive indeed.

^ Agreed.

Fill police stations with minor offences and therefore additional processing and paperwork so fewer officers for elsewhere? Only reason I could see for doing it really. Maybe there's something else though