Extinction Rebellion

Those comments make me sad.

Treated as heroes like they pulled a suicide bomber off the roof of a train and gave him a kicking!

Yeah I mean, that's not OK. I'm not really shocked through. The tube is serious business and stressed people corralled in a small space can quickly deteriorate into a mob, especially when the 'enemy' is so clearly identifiable.

It reaffirms my previous point: I fail to see how this is supposed to lead to any changes.

This seems important if true
https://twitter.com/nurseboothroyd/status/1184737775360335875?s=21

And yeah, this is exactly the kind of stuff I meant.

Interesting. I might need some help with this; what's the wisdom in staging a protest and obstructing one of the more environmentally friendly (?) forms of transport in the capital?

I think they think they’re shutting down Canary Wharf. But yeah, it’s stupid and counterproductive IMHO.

I think the thinking goes:

Disruption -> Attention -> Public awareness and support-> Government forced to act

The protests this morning have got my football teams' WhatsApp groups talking about XR for the first time - but it's not favourable.

It's an inevitable problem. You'll always have fringe elements acting like knobs.

The challenge is this will go viral, so even randoms who aren't effected are going to take a view.

Disrupting tube/DLR transport breaks down at the public support stage, IMO. If my long haul flight was disrupted because of an airport protest I might be a bit pissed off but completely get where they're coming from, but without hearing any protesters explaining the tube stunt I'm struggling with it.

Yep, especially with actual violence making for even better clickbait, you can bet any negative stories will be massively pushed by certain elements of the media, drowning out intended messages.

The ES' headline says it all really. It's a jorno's wet dream.

The ridiculous thing is that there had already been a soft launch of the idea of disrupting the tubes in the first round of XR protests. The public and media reaction was immediately - "why would you disrupt a green form of transport" - it's such an obvious gotcha you'd have to have learning difficulties not to see it coming.

Ignore the shouty mobile phone bloke at the start and listen to the second guy
https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1184711016401252357?s=21

https://twitter.com/alixmortimer/status/1184730657622298624?s=21

Oh dear.

Apparently the tube action 'wasn't approved by an XR vote'? Anyone know if that's true?

Shocking video. Mob mentality. Disgusting.

Edit: Ah, ok, is that what they're referring to?

Just stop your bleating it's really boring now. You have made your point.

I have spent a lot of time flyering at these events and the overwhelming response from people has been positive and supportive.

I was at a work networking event the other day wearing my XR badge on my lapel. Alot of MPs, members of the Lord's and Civil service, very senior people from big banks, FTSE 100 companies, serious private equity people etc. The talk was on 'the future of capitalism' and climate change wasn't mentioned once. When I asked my question (about climate change naturally), the vast majority of the room were vocally supportive (hear hear etc) and afterwards, all these senior people kept coming up to me and saying things like 'I really support what you lot are doing, I wouldn't want to get arrested but I think it's great that you are doing this etc' . These are the people that these protests are trying to target. Systemic change needs to come from the top and it's clear that it's being noted by at least some of those people.

I do think that XR are having a positive impact and while people who work in renewables and the climate change sector are of course great, we need systemic change, fast! This is one effective way to try and make that happen. If you have another way then get on with it and just stop going on and on and on and on. It's tiresome.

These are the people that these protests are trying to target. Systemic change needs to come from the top

So why are London's average commuters in buses and tubes being impeded on their way to work? Not exactly the elites of the elites in there. It's easy for those 'very senior people' and 'serious private equity people' etc. to be congratulatory when they're being driven past in their Maybach.

just stop going on and on and on and on. It's tiresome.

Yeah, sorry, but you will need to be able to take sustained criticism. Things like 'stop your bleating' etc. are not helping your PR effort.

Personally I find a casual insult and anecdote really persuasive.

Can take sustained criticism. Just bored by his overly self regarding bullshit.

The point, if you have read about it is to create serious disruption in order to force change. Because this will pale into insignicance in 10 or so years when we go past the point of no return. Blathering uselessly about commuters being late for work is just hot air. So just calling his bullshit out for what it is. And I'm not alone

No offence, but if you're rolling with that crowd why are you arguing on a thread about it on LFGSS?

overly self regarding bullshit

Funny, that's exactly what I thought about your account of how you rub shoulders with super important people and how they all loved you.

create serious disruption in order to force change

Causal. Link. Where is it?

Repeating the line of 'forcing change' doesn't mean you've explained it. Actions such as the one in Canning Town, how specifically is this 'forcing change'?

Blathering uselessly about commuters being late for work is just hot air.

Sure sounds like you actually can't take the criticism and instead just like to call it 'blathering' and 'bleating'. You will have to accept that XR's methods will be examined and criticised. And yes, the questions of "why are you blocking normal people trying to get to work in one of the more environmentally-friendly modes of transport available" will not stop. So far I have not heard a convincing answer.

Finally, as I've said before, it's worth remembering that the people you're arguing with here, including myself, are actually on the same side of the issue. I can be pretty radical in some of my views, including on capitalism etc., and yet (or maybe also partially because of that) I'm not convinced by this approach. How many of the people in Canning Town who might not care as much to begin with do you think have been won over?

To be fair to @punkture (and XR) their tactic is to cause widespread problems. Climate change will effect everyone, even people on DLR and those financing wind arrays. That's the message they're getting across. 'you think this is bad, just wait'. Its not just low lying pacific rim islands that are at threat.
There's always going to be people that think they are doing enough, and that they don't need to be doing more, but those people aren't in XR - these people want to do anything they can. So until there is a more concrete plan than carrying on hoping google and bp will fix everything, they're doing anything! I don't see why that's so hard to understand. I think if someone said 'don't do that, do this' they would. But just saying 'don't do that' isn't enough.

That's the message they're getting across. 'you think this is bad, just wait'. Its not just low lying pacific rim islands that are at threat.

Yes, I get the idea behind that, and it is in principle entirely true of course. The problem is that being right doesn't mean that your methods necessarily work out. And especially if you are trying to actually achieve change, just pissing off a few people using the tube is not constructive at all, it might very well be the opposite.

I have a question. The demands of XR are in reality a true revolution of the modern world. To achieve what they say is required to halt climate change and human extinction, every single person will be affected.

The disruptions faced by XR protests will be looked back on as insignificant compared to society after the level of change required.

We're talking about destroying societal construct as it exists in the West.

Someone like @h2o suggest change that adheres to society's expectation of continuing a modicum of normality.

You can't ask for a revolution with no opinion of what life will look like or how people will survive after said revolution. The answer, "well at least you/future generations will be alive" is not enough of an answer.

By getting world leaders to agree that the required change within current political and economical confines is impossible, you're opening up the possibility of absolute panic.

I'm not trying to say the methodology is wrong or that I disagree with it, what I'm trying to say is my perception of XR is trying to create an acknowledgment that we're living in an apocalypse scenario.

I may have lost my train of thought..

so instead they should....