Extinction Rebellion

XR feels as if it is trying to co-opt all climate activism, much as the SWP tries to co-opt social movements under the banner of anti-war or anti-fascist protest. Those who criticise XR’s tactics are accused of ignorance or not caring about climate change, even when those offering the criticism are climate activists. Some of XR’s claims are just scaremongering and not supported by science - see this for example https://twitter.com/bbchardtalk/status/1162309729735127040
And I think that shutting down transport nodes in full knowledge that this will hurt working class people and impede the emergency services is a pretty aggressive course of action too.

Fair enough. It’s a view I’ve not heard before.

It’s worth noting that XR is unlike the SWP in a couple of significant ways; XR hasn’t been politically partisan, and it has been highly successful.

Our definitions of success are very different.

Regarding that (pretty wild) claim from Hallam ..... it’s impossible to put any number on this with a degree of certainty.

I imagine he knows what he’s doing (perhaps he thought the timing was right for a controversial headline)?

Crop failures, floods etc account for hundreds of millions of deaths. For this the science is decent (with a whole ton of caveats - as expected). No studies afaik touch on issues of conflict, war, displaced people fighting for land and resource, protectionism and all these secondary consequences. So it is all guesswork.

I would argue it’s stuff worth thinking about. I think Hallam is trying to provoke thought.

Our definitions of success are very different.

53,490 media pieces ... is a high level of success.

53,490 media pieces ... is a high level of success.

Is it though? In terms of actually getting something to change?

Don't get me wrong, I am still all for almost any type of protest. Any criticisms I have with regards to them are to be seen as criticisms of someone who's still, when it all comes down to it, supporting them - and most certainly supporting their goals. But having said that, one has to be careful not to get too jubilant about getting a lot of press coverage. All too often, people forget that 'raising awareness' in itself does absolutely fuck all.

Old bill asking for ID from everyone crossing Lambeth Bridge:

https://twitter.com/alexjarmitage/status/1184086007379103744

I count success in the amount of carbon that isn’t emitted as a result. Right now I wouldn’t say it’s much at all. Financing a wind array - quite a bit more impact.

Well done for financing a wind array!

You haven’t financed a wind array recently? Shame on you!

This is kinda mad.
Also, presumably you can just catch a bus?

I think it’s safe to say most people involved in the XR protests would be extremely encouraging of @h2o in her/his job. And sorry she/he feels assumptions have been made about her/his knowledge on the subject of climate change.

That's crazy if true!

I don’t personally finance them, never said I did. I provide information to people who do, and have worked with a lot of people who are heavily involved either in financing renewables, lobbying on green energy policy, or providing intelligence to decision-makers in the energy space. I think they’ve done good work to help put us on a low-carbon trajectory, although the job is far from done. I don’t think a bunch of news articles about people blocking the roads are as valuable, no.

^ You're so full of shit. Someone has to say it.

Fine. I don’t know why you say that. I work in a bit of the world where we do a mixture of journalism and analysis about the energy industry, for the energy industry. I spent a few years in renewables and moved onto broader gas and power issues, where I’ve been a lot longer. If you think that makes me full of shit, so be it. I think XR are full of shit.

No one cases what you do or who you "provide information" to. The world will not be changed by you no matter how much you want to make this conversation about you.

Care to elaborate why exactly?

I think you should look less at the people and better at what they have been doing and saying.

It’s being changed by the people who have spent the last 20 years driving down the cost of renewable energy and lobbying for renewable energy targets. Yeah, I know some of these people thanks to my work as a fairly lowly cog in a big machine. I think they’re doing more important work than XR. Sorry if that wasn’t clear from my previous posts.

This is actually nuts.

Of course I'm happy that they are cheaper, but we need even more than renewables now.
These two graphs scare the shit out of me.
I assume many share h2o's view that XR are full of shit. Is it a case of any publicity is good publicity? I think it's extremely difficult to face the reality of what's happening. How do you show someone slaughterhouse footage while eating meat?How do you show someone something like that? I think XR are managing to successfully do this.

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I think a lot of people have cared a lot about this issue for a long time and have worked hard to try to make a low carbon world possible. I know people who have dedicated their careers to solving these problems. They’ve done that within the confines of a capitalist system because that’s frankly the quickest way to get there. That graph above is hugely important because making renewables cost competitive removes the biggest barrier to their implementation. That’s the result of actual work that people have done to try to make the world a better place. Actual work, not perfomance theatre in a public space.

If XR succeeds in getting more wind arrays and solar farms and electricity storage facilities built; if they solve the problem of space heating without fossil fuels; if they
inspire huge energy efficiency measures across homes and commercial properties, then great. If they’re unwilling to build wind farms - like Dale Vince did - I would at least acknowledge the importance of their inspiring a concrete change in government or commercial policy, if they can actually achieve that. I would at that point take it all back and apologise for doubting them. Until then I think they’re climate Swappies playing at revolution.

Remember that time Rosa Parks and her friends delayed that bus and everyone was late for work?

Yeah because the problem there was massive deployment of alternative technologies. Woke whataboutery won’t fix this problem.