Extinction Rebellion

Agree for sure but I think it is disingenuous at the least to say that the ‘pain’ of reducing resource usage intensity will effectively fall only on the shareholders of 20 companies.

I think it’s pretty ridiculous to lump “western consumers” and the “US Department of Defence” together as if they have equal power.

As @Oliver Schick rightly says, and as always with more eloquence than I, it’s a complicated web of supply and demand. But I disagree with your dismay at the idea that change must be made from the top. This issue is absolutely skewed in that way. I’m not saying it’s just the shareholders of those 20 companies – it’s an elite business class, dealing directly with governments in hundreds of millions of pounds, to do everything they can not to allow change.

What does it matter if western consumers all want fully electric cars right now in 2019, if the car manufacturers have no intention of actually making affordable electric vehicles and the governments no intention of creating the infrastructure required? We can make some choices and choose not to drive at all, ride share etc but we do not have equal power. Capitalism ensures that we do not have equal power.

The Guardians in depth series this week has been really great if anyone hasn’t seen it yet. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/series/the-polluters

Actually you should wash porridge under a cold tap as it’s all gloopy and sticky when you use the hot. Best to leave it to soak in cold.

I’m strongly opposed to the soak. It may be 2019 but I gladly eat porridge every damn day.

Long handled bristly kitchen brush, cold water, instantly, no soak, just go at it with the brush and water the moment that oaty goodness has left the pan for the bowl. Repeat for the bowl. Truly efficient porridge technique.

Porridge is delicious and healthy and I'll fight anyone who doesn't like it. No milk allowed, just water.

And fruit and chilli and hazelnuts

Overnight oats.
https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/healthy-living/5-reasons-try-overnight-oats/

Why are they blocking Bank junction when it’s only open to buses and bikes on weekday mornings?

I suppose I am slightly more optimistic that you in that I believe that we in the west still live in democratic countries and if enough people vote for something they can get it.

Reducing our impact on the planet requires total behaviour change at the individual level that can’t just be imposed from the top.

Now of course if there is an accompanying political plan to transition to a centrally planned economy this all changes, but I don’t see the democratic desire for this.

I was so embarrassed about being trolled. Even if that is still the case it weirdly makes me feel better that hugo7 actually seems to believe what he is saying. I didn’t conveniently keep coal out the equation for the purposes of making an argument I’m aware that we privatised energy and closed the pits. It’s like Boris was saying last week, Maggie was a green-hero for doing that 😉 despite our home and overseas contracting of coal power since then.
What we got during globalisation and the shift to services in the uk was so far away from Keynes it’s untrue; it is the era, instead, in which Keynes became a dirty word. I’m struggling to find a coherence in what you are saying. All I am suggesting is that a more global and historical picture- a more coherent picture- is necessary for an assessment. If colonialism and slavery doesn’t come into it for you; if the horizon of our responsibilities ends at our borders or with direct ownership by British people; if merely investing in or outsourcing something ecologically damaging and morally corrupt doesn’t reflect on ‘us’ well they are pretty limited horizons. And if to say otherwise makes me implicitly an advocate of communism, we’ll, so be it. But it isn’t a picture I recognise.
Everyone is so cool on here.

Surely we need to solve this on the demand side; just turning off the supply seems a reckless way to transition the economy.

Both. Make it politically expedient, economically acceptable and make law. We do it all the time.

Give a people’s assembly the best available evidence. It could be credible (and therefore politically unpopular to dismiss it’s recommendations).

George Mombiot illustrated why we should try: Scientific reality is fixed. Political reality can feel fixed, but of course it isn’t.

https://twitter.com/GreenRupertRead/status/1183839609593184257?s=19

Painful comments or whatever they're called on Twitter.

That seemed a bit of an own goal.

It's obviously quite an iconic location but that was one of the first things they asked them when they were on the news tonight and the XR spokesman just waffled a bit whilst the news story showed all the buses that couldn't move.

Why would it be an own goal?

The point of the protest is to cause disruption by direct action and bring attention to the issues that XR want to highlight. Outside the bank of England is a pretty good place to do that.

Disruption to the day to day is the goal because XR is trying to highlight that normal service can't be resumed. So if some public transport gets diverted and causes a traffic jam, bringing attention to the issues to many people and the authorities, that's not an own goal, that's the whole point of it.

Disrupting low-carbon transport options on which lower-income workers are disproportionately reliant? Yeah, I’d say it’s an own goal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49906062

'capitalism allocates resources efficiently'

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That's nuts. Cheaper to burn off than store, but not for the planet!

It does look pretty cool, you can see it for miles. Bit like Mount Doom:

I see that the protests have now been banned. Total fucking bollocks.

It’s a weird strategy. It’s almost as if the police want this to succeed. Do they think we’ll all go home now?
It’s just going to lead to more disruptive actions, more people for the police to deal with and ultimately success for XR.

At least it's put XR back in the headlines today, the news has been so quiet.
Isn't it going to be a big problem that with a blanket been no one participating is now "non-arrestable"?
City-wide ban is extraordinary. What if XR simply dissolves into a dozen differently-named climate action groups, what are they going to do, ban all protest?

What if XR simply dissolves into a dozen differently-named climate action groups

That's what every single roadblock has done. So im assuming that you fundamentally disagree with the way XR protests in its entirety then? Because blocking a few busses is kinda the whole point.

Because blocking a few busses is kinda the whole point

Why though? Why not focus on blocking roads with more private traffic? Realistically, buses really aren't the problem. Neither are cyclists, and those are usually let through.

Wasn't the point of the Bank protest that they were protesting the Bank of England? Were they supposed to ask the bank to move to a road with private traffic for the purposes of the protest?