Extinction Rebellion

Ehhh... I just take exception to being shouted down as wrong, for expressing an opinion. An opinion with caveats. There is only opinion, and anybody who thinks otherwise needs to read philosophy for dummies or something.

My remark was that the opinion I hold is only the rich and the white can afford to live like bums. There are those that have no choice in their way of life, and those that choose to stand by convictions but cannot afford to. And then there are those, like some people of colour for example, who are isolated from that choice because of factors like in the article expresses. My point stands that my opinion is the rich and the white can afford to have the expectation of a slap on the wrist in court, or to live in a squat until they get cold then go home to mummy and daddy. Afford.

But this is an internet forum where people neither read the entire statement before jumping in to attack, nor consider the nuance of language for what little they may have read. It’s a forum for friendly people to be friendly, but only when they like or agree, and never to consider the vital role of antagonist.

Imma head out and ignore the echo chamber now.

to have the expectation of a slap on the wrist in court

Pulling this bit out - I think this will be a crucial test for the conviction of those with privilege taking part. The first stage of hearings has already taken part with sentencing to come. There's a bit of noise about ensuring all those arrested see court, and that all those in court receive punishment, to set an example.

this is an internet forum where people etc

Sure, it's an echo chamber to some extent, and some people are quick to assume, to bite while others are quick to hurt or both. So it goes. There's space to reply, as you've just shown. There's no need to write the whole thing off.

entirely non-critical

I very much disagree with this. Being critical is how the movement and the individual grows.

Being overly critical can be counterproductive because it's rejected and not received.

I think there’s an element of countering a left wing opinion. It’s almost like you’re not allowed to question anything to do with a protest

I think it'll have a significant impact, unfortunately. I hope tomorrow proves me wrong.

I think you may have missed out a (fairly crucial) 'don't' here. :)

I think they mean the recent events like court hearings, pre-emptive arrests, warehouse raids. Will have a significant (cooling) impact on the coming protests.
"This week" I intended to mean the coming week, I think rhb meant it as the week just gone.

(Or were you making a funny?)

For clarity:

I think the police intervention etc will have a significant impact on the number of activists & what can be achieved by XR in London 7th onwards, unfortunately. I hope tomorrow proves me wrong.

this popped up on twitter, seems kinda relevant:

https://twitter.com/XR_MCR/status/1180807044196130816?s=19

Those arrested were briefed, given as much info as possible before deciding to get arrested. Most are not presuming a slap on the wrist.

You’re opinions are going to get called out if they’re lazy and demonstrably untrue.

Being critical is how the movement and the individual grows.

Not so much in early stages. It’s trial and error. Having purpose and getting attention ...

Total support, criticism will come later

Boring

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/02/climate-protest-alienate-britains-working-classes-extinction-rebellion

I think there is a real forest/trees problem with some of these articles. Oh no, it's galling to be told to stop eating meat is it? I'm sure when Tuvalu sinks into the sea its people will understand that you weren't strong enough to give up burgers. How about we get on with the main issue - that being the potential end of human civilisation - and worry about the feelings of the Daily-Mail-reading ex-miners of Wigan afterwards?

(Having been on a train for 7 hours so far today my patience is wearing fairly thin)

TBF they were probably Mirror readers

Maybe that was a bit strong. But the point is - let's not lose sight of the main goal and descend into infighting, which seems to be all the left* is good at these days

* not really a left/right issue but you know

On the one hand I think it's quite a good article (longer version maybe has better context in a hope not hate climate change special) on the other hand I think some of the points it makes are a patronising. ie. I think most people are quite capable of grasping the importance of clean energy even if (or maybe especially if) they are ex-miners. I think the good points are about being aware/conscious of the range of situations that people are in, and basically, being respectful especially to people who are worse off than you.

Edit: that sounded way fluffier than I meant it. But I can't be bothered to rephrase.

Sorry, I just thought the confusion over 'actions' was funny.

More examples of some of my issues with XR

https://twitter.com/VotezNon/status/1180568745351225344

Yesterday in Paris some pissed off yellow vests, leftists, and climate marchers decided to occupy a major shopping centre. Extinction Rebellion started collaborating with the cops, removing anti cop graffiti claiming it was "violence, and that cops aren't enemies", and left voluntarily when the cops demanded that the occupation be ended, leaving the rest of the participants vulnerable.

It's sad to see good awareness and organising work crippled by misguided faith in liberalism and capitalist institutions. This video sums it up well (XR section at 13:00 or so)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAUrzee9jfc

https://twitter.com/ACrowdedPlanet/status/1181100014573166592?s=19

I don't click daily mail & not sure when from, but headline shows the media strategy to discredit campaigners.

Very shortlived blocking if embankment. (apart from the people locked onto a car yet to be freed.)

I bumped into two old friends who are heavily involved in ER yesterday.

They have come in from Wales for this week's events in London. Was really surprised how organised everything is, particularly around communications.

Time for another obnoxious essay!

being respectful especially to people who are worse off than you.

That's the nub of what I'm getting at really. If we are being honest and proportionate, the concerns of a poor ex-miner in Wigan/an alienated religious person/a sidelined person-of-colour/an anti-capitalist/whomever in the UK pale in significance compared to those of people in island nations/Bangladesh/etc. and the people who will live through the next few centuries.

Not to start a fight here, but the video @Drano posted is a good example. It's criticism of XR on the basis that they are operating within a capitalist system rather than trying to overthrow it. Clearly to the person who made that video, abolition of capitalism is more important than climate change, and it ought to be clear that that is a nonsensical position to take - I mean, you wouldn't spend your money on laser eye surgery if that meant you couldn't afford to eat, would you? Because your eyesight doesn't matter if you're not alive. Similarly, living in a hyper-capitalist dictatorship is better than not living at all. The expenditure of time, money, effort, political capital towards any other problem with modern society is not rational unless those diversions will help to stop climate change sooner.

Maybe if we'd started 30 years ago... but we didn't, so all we can afford to do now is try to resolve this problem just barely in time

I really enjoy the different views/discourse by you guys, thanks for a higher resolution.

Similarly, living in a hyper-capitalist dictatorship is better than not living at all.

is it though?
I mean, there's a big one for a big discussion.
Is it better to not be alive than live in a dictatorship?
I wait for someone with more brainpower than me, so most people, to calmly explain my 6th form take on philosophy is wrong.

I agree with your point about the concerns of those who are going to be affected most/have to live through it have more weight.