Black Rainbow Project needs your help!

It's just cheeky of him to ask without offering anything in return...

You are still failing to see that you need to preface this with “In my (your) opinion...”.

Plenty of people have posted here voicing the opinion that they don’t find it cheeky and plenty have proven they don’t find it cheeky by donating.

pedrito, let me know the link for your axe grinding kickstarter. I assume it is all fully costed for.

Not sure that offering a hoodie for sale mitigates just asking for money. It's the first few pages of the thread where people attempted to direct him towards selling equity or starting a kickstater and his outright refusal to consider this that irritated me. It just struck me as him taking the lazy/easy way.

He's doesn't appear to have costed anything and has no idea how far the 6k will get him towards production. Wouldn't it have made more sense to have had a cast iron plan, knowing exactly how much money he'd need to complete a first production run and then gone to kickstarter with this number. Obviously this figure would have been much higher than 6k, but BRP seems to have a reputation for producing great bags and could have used this to leverage the sum. Also the goodwill on this forum would have also been invaluable in generating exposure. But support is finite and he risks exhausting it by frivolously spunking peoples money up the wall.

Just asking for £ seems lazy, ill-conceived and prevents him from confronting the realities of establishing a successful business. Personally I would never feel comfortable asking for free-money, but if I approached a funding platform would make sure I could demonstrate cogent and exhaustive planning.

Of course it does, you could donate or donate and receive a t shirt.

The problem is yours not his.

No axe to grind, never had any dealings with him. Have only become entrenched because of the myopic defend him at all costs attitude.

Also if you want to talk economics you could have invested this time in something more worthwhile. Rather than borderline bully someone trying to do something positive.

Problem will be his if he doesn't get near his total, not sure I'm doing the bullying or have actually attacked BRP personally. Honestly I hope he succeeds and promise to buy a bag if he ever gets anything into production, but am sure that he ain't going about it the right way.

So you can help by donating or not, no one is forcing you to.
I see you can’t yourself concede you were wrong but never mind.

Just go do something more productive.

I'm glad I've never had to ask you for a spare beer or anything. I bet you spit at buskers.

It's a complete nonsense demonising me to delegitimize an argument. I'd give to buskers after listening, buy a beer knowing it likely be returned, give to charity and volunteer. He ain't giving anything nor is he a charity, just wants cash.

He's giving the possibility of the existence of a company and a product that people like, for some people that's enough, for some people someone just asking for something, no strings attached is enough. I'm not demonising you to deligitimise an argument, you have no argument other than a personal feeling that people shouldn't ask for things without a firm offer of something in return and that other people shouldn't choose to be altruistic. I'm separately pointing out that you seem like a bit of a prick, probably partially due to the above held feelings,which aren't an argument.

What, fundamentally, is wrong with that as long as everyone is clear about it?

I’d also point out that it’s not true that this is only a one way transaction- aiding Scott does benefit this community, which may be intangible but is no less real for that.

There seems to be a strong theme of it being wrong to ask for help in your posts- I’d suggest that there’s nothing wrong with so doing, and I’d like to hear a reasoned explanation of why you think asking for help is morally wrong as it appears to be the core of your argument.

He ain't giving anything...

But he is, and has and, I imagine, will continue to. You seem unable (or unwilling) to comprehend this.

I think Scott and Perdito should settle this with a good old fashioned drag sprint at sunset.
Track gearing, knuckle-width bars, on the Greenway.

Not that there’s anything to settle but y’know.

Ok, so that distils the argument perfectly. Whilst I obviously don't think it's wrong to ask for help, the one-way transaction of money muddies the waters. I would feel deeply uncomfortable asking for cash to fulfil an ambition that stood to only benefit me financially. I believe that Scott may have had a moral imperative to reciprocate in kind and not doing so might be imposing on a supportive community. Is it possible to simultaneously want to support someone and be taken advantage of? Obviously Scott made it clear he would be giving nothing back, but does this absolve of a duty to do so? Also does he have a responsibility to spend people's money diligently and produce a plan. Now I am not absolutely wedded to the position, but still believe it to be a valid question and only became entrenched because it was met with insults rather than discussion. I don't see the problem with asking these questions in response to a public post, I am consciously not telling anyone what to do. I can't really see how the vitriol is merited, but understand people may disagree with the position I have taken. What really annoyed me was the initial rush to quell the discussion by people who are obviously friends with him. This is a public forum and I'm not sure there is anything wrong with asking him to explain himself and finding said explanation unconvincing.

There was also this suggestion earlier that BRP turn to a charity, such as Mind, and ask for help. This is not what charities do, but it is what people think charities do. In actual fact, charities have a rather limited amount of things that they can and can't do, and handing over a bunch of cash to somebody so they can start a business (to make money) is not what the function of charities is.

This idea that charities provide 'help' - an undefined assistance - is a really common idea in the UK. It allows us not to blame our country for being mega hard to live in, and especially hard if you have some for of knockback or ill health. Charity is given by organisations to those who have been defined as 'needy', so the regular gent on the street doesn't have to think about working as part of a society.

Sorry if this was already addressed earlier; I don't have the time to read all the online beef here. But it comes down to what part of society/community should support the individual, and in this case it seems the people of LFGSS - intense bike-focused urbanite people - have decided to support BRP, as they identify with him. And they have also supported him, mostly, knowing that this might be an investment that isn't repaid.

That suggestion was not made by me. I wanted to know if he had bothered to try and access government grants for small businesses available through job centres.

You're not being demonized, you're just being forced to confront the hard reality that nobody agrees with you and being told you come across like a dyed in the wool cunt.

Remember when Scott still used colours?

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Could be the case. Or it could be that the forum doesn't permit discussion if it reflects unkindly on one of the chosen few.

My first use of the “ignore” feature; feels good, man.

It's permitted in the sense it's occurring so don't see where the censorship comes in. Still doesn't make the thread it's in appropriate, or you right either.

Again, you seem to be doing your best to conflate being censored with just being generally regarded as a bellwhiff.

Shouted down, not censored.

Obviously it was impertinent of me to question the validity of a man soliciting donations for his businesses.

Obviously I am aware that I'm shitting in the communal soup

Could be a line from The Thick of It

You came in and called the dude unethical, cheeky as fuck and exploitative in your first three comments. What were you expecting? All of your follow up comments have reiterated the same point, like people didn't get it the first time.