Extinction Rebellion

Double post!

@cycleclinic @rhb

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/17/power-to-the-people-could-a-citizens-assembly-solve-the-brexit-crisis

I found this article really informative. I felt like it gave good context and addressed many concerns one might have if only just hearing about them on a superficial level. I found the analysis of the Irish citizens assembly as part of their referendum on abortion laws actually really interesting. I didn't even know that they had one! It cites many other examples of assemblies that have worked surprisingly well. I had no idea that they existed before reading this and in many ways they certainly sound like they're worth a shot. I'm personally pretty open to alternative ways to progress our democratic system considering how inadequate it currently seems to be.

They're stopping just as the mayor asked them to. What a polite protest this was! Great that it caused no real disruption or upset, wouldn't want to rock the boat too much.

Good read, ta, defo worth a shot if ran effectively.

Excellent, so that's...

This is what I really struggle with.

We have slow economic growth, wage stagnation, shortage of skilled domestic jobs, real risk of mass white-collar redundancies from AI, the resource curse of financial services, all set against the new challenge of Brexit.

Why is this government so reticent to push the UK toward a fucking massive growth area which could see us position ourselves as one of the world leaders?

I've spent the last couple of weeks mulling over how you could get people to think twice before booking air travel (something I'm wrestling with on a more personal level)...one of the things I can remember when I was online dating was how prominent travel was among people's outward facing 'brand' (for want of a better description) and if that continues, then trying to temper people's air travel habit is going to be very hard.

Campaigns in the past such as Expedia's Travel Yourself Interesting make it very explicit and we can expect more of the same with Airbnb looking to pump out video content encouraging people to travel more...but you also see travel getting under the skin through less explicitly marketing based channels such as social media where people are keen to show they're engaging with the 'experiential economy.'

I definitely think there's a role for government to bring onboard market externalities which aren't part of consumers' current purchase decisions but I also think a behavioural change programme is needed if we're to make it just as attractive to cycle around Wales as it is to visit Machu Picchu (and I'm talking for the general public and not the denizens of LFGSS).

Interested in hearing peoples thoughts as if climate change is to be addressed, figure there needs to be change at an individual as well as government level and it would be great to do this in a way that was positive (value of local/community...) without resorting to jingoism (pork pies and union jacks ain't going to do it for me)

It's tough.

I'm flying to France instead of boat/tunnel+driving or train+driving because; 1) it's cheaper, 2) it's more convenient for my particular circumstances right now.

But in future I will consider it more.

http://tindergirlsatmachupicchu.tumblr.com/

I think the blame for this lies entirely at the feet of the oil and gas companies. Spending hundreds of millions spreading lies and climate change denial, whilst simultaneously donating massively to political parties to ensure their support. I guess when you are making tens of billions of pounds a year, that's what you can spend to protect your profits.

The political donations make it hard for politicians to act (but not impossible), but the lies and climate denial meant there was cover for the politicians inaction.

It really shouldn't be cheaper. Air travel is cheap because so little of it is taxed. We've become accustomed to cheap air travel and so prying that away will be difficult, but it needs to happen.

I just checked - If I need to be in Edinburgh by early afternoon on Monday, I could get the train for £75 or fly for £35. That is madness.

I had this exact thing recently, I needed to get from Exeter to Manchester, £300 on the train, £60 on the plane...

I realise £75 is almost double, but most could manage the extra £40 for Scrabble's flight.

An extra £240 less so.

I was genuinely shocked by how cheap the flight was. I often take the train from the westcountry to London, so have become numb to the £150 that costs each way...

Interesting discussion. The travel issue is tough as many jobs now require an increasing level of it despite the rise of technology based collaboration tools. As has been pointed out many people live far from parents meaning if you are to see them on a regular basis a flight is the default option.

Fast fashion is an area that i find crazy - i recently saw the stats for a large, UK based fast fashion set-up and they airfreight all their products globally. With product returns running at circa 40% that means that the t-shirt flown from Mauritius where its made to the UK distribution hub to Sydney where the customer is and then potentially flown back as its the wrong color. That's not to mention the fact the t-shirts will be worn twice and discarded or an understanding of the working conditions at the factory or the chemical process involved in its creation.

as genuinely shocked by how cheap the flight was. I often take the train from the westcountry to London, so have become numb to the £150 that costs each way...

But I'd like to get away from seeing it just as a pricing/markets issue - which effectively makes travel a luxury good (prices go up, poor can no longer afford it...) and in addition change people's attitudes to travel. You can enrich your lives without going to the other side of the world and it would be great to see that view encouraged.

Yes, and the two issues (luxury/lifestyles of the rich and famous) and 'desirability' of travel are closely linked. If you're a (n international) celebrity, supposedly representing the best of society, part of that will always involve popping up in all sorts of places, whether you're on an international concert tour or going to all the glitziest parties in New York City, London, Paris, LA ... so if you jack up the price without changing people's fundamental idea that 'travelling' makes them more virtuous, you're not going to get very far (people might just go into more debt, starve their children of food, etc. to fulfil their 'dream').

Another important thing is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's clearly something good about mobility, and despite the evils of hypermobility, shared out quite unequally, there are still many people for whom 'you're in your place, and you know where you are' is an inescapable reality. Likewise, there is clearly something good about travelling. There is nothing wrong, of course, with the general idea that it's beneficial to see a bit of the world when you're young (quite on the contrary), but much of the 'travelling' from tourist trap to tourist trap, or fragile historical sights/sites, obviously doesn't correspond.

However, building a consensus about the appropriate mean is extremely difficult when your departure point (pun intended) is such rampant injustice as today.

That has to be the ultimate ideal, but the easy win must surely be to make sure people are incentivised to make greener choices.

Why is the train not £30 and the flight £75. How can we help people make the right choice rather than push them into the wrong choice?

At the moment we are incentivised to use the least efficient means of getting from one end of the country to the other.

Building-in a rough environmental cost at purchase seems to me to be a good way of is being more ‘honest’ about our environmental impact.

It would be a bit like VAT and face much the same criticism I imagine. I don’t buy the argument that VAT is a regressive tax. The argument goes ... we all buy houses, furniture, cars, holidays, fashion items etc and those with twice the means don’t buy two houses, two cars, twice the furniture etc but I’d love to see the data. It sounds like an argument from a previous phase of capitalism to me because that’s exactly what the middle classes do now (and exactly what the 14 million in poverty dream of). Admittedly any eco taxes (again like VAT) are not a progressive, ok, but that’s an aside - we’re not short of mechanisms for wealth redistribution (only the political will to do so). Spend the revenue on eco social housing maybe? Being non-progressive is also helpful in communicating simply and directly why the tax exists (it’s purely to steer consumption, not for ideologically loaded wealth-distribution, not a Marxist plot etc). And unlike income tax ... at least these taxes would get paid by the rich.

There is a theory that our West Coast will see a boom in tourism as global temps rise:

There may be some less harmful changes as a result of climate change. Long, dry summers can lead to new archaeological discoveries in the form of parch marks and crop marks, revealing previously unknown buried sites. Hotter, drier summers may also increase tourism potential and support economic development. However, increased visitor numbers can harm fragile historic environments, which need to be carefully managed to reduce their vulnerability.

https://beta.gov.wales/sites/default/files/consultations/2018-12/climate-change-adaptation-delivery-plan-for-wales.pdf

This might be staycationers not flying but could also include visitors from abroad "escaping" even hotter areas, so unfortunately could mean Wales then has to develop "capacity" (airport) to accomodate incoming flights in order to capitalise on this.

Next step for me tonight is check zoopla to find prices of clapped out hotels for sale near Aberystwyth....

Aircraft will get ‘clean’ at some point. Properly taxing travel on the current jets will only help speed this process along.

The same for shipping.

Shipping is only this year getting low sulphur bunker fuel.
The Shipping Industry has successfully lobbied governments to exempt them from the costs of either low sulphur fuels, or fitting de-sulphurisation units.
UK Drivers have had ulsp since '97.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1014912.stm

theory...

Yay. Pity about the forest fires, children with reduced lung function, algae puddles where rivers once were and thousands of acres of pine and rats where there was massive, ancient biodiversity. So long as people fill-up on the welsh side of the border it’s all good.

/rant
:)

shipping

Every silver lining has a cloud... I'm kinda surprised that the "Climate Change Adaptation Plan" highlights this as a positive.

P.s. Cheapest hotel I found for sale was £350,000.

What a fucking brilliant post.
Hands down this is the best thing I've read for ages.