Extinction Rebellion

The carriers would pass the costs onto the people flying. Penalising them.

incentivise air carriers

You mean beyond building them airports to use?
Flying is the definition of a luxury,
and,
the users of private jets pay even less Air Passenger Duty then 'we' do.
https://www.privatefly.com/privatejet-services/air-passenger-duty-private-jet.html

Well they wouldn’t stay in business for long if their competitors were receiving govt incentives (ie tax breaks), were genuinely greener and had cheaper ticket prices.

Personally there were no suitably appealing jobs with a salary commensurate to my skills where I grew up

In a future system (the equivalent) you may need to suck it up sunshine and take a position doing work that benefits your local or adjacent community.

flying back home here and there is unavoidable

It is avoidable, just not appealing to you.

Sounds like fascism, can’t wait for this future system

Isn’t that what companies do? They operate a larger scale thing than what we can do as individuals, and pass the cost on to us as consumers?

Up until now the cost of having a working environment has been calculated as free, so they are greatly resistant to adding more costs onto their business plan.

And there’s no point in pointing at families flying around or people buying objects in plastic and saying ‘U FUCKERS ARE KILLJNG THE EARTH’ because for a lot of people there just isn’t an alternative because that’s all that the system offers where they live. But demonstrations like Extinction are pointing out that there is a large amount of people who do want an alternative, and are concerned enough about it to do something drastic.

The carriers don't build their own planes. The tech is sold to them by the manufacturers, e.g Boeing & Airbus. The carriers will transition to "cleaner" planes when they're given to them. The people will pay the costs.

1)Oh trust me I tried.

2)Nope. It’s unavoidable. I don’t just go there to sip cocktails on a beach in the sunshine, sunshine. I have bureaucracy to deal with that is only possible in person. Part and parcel of having a dual nationality and “life admin” in two countries.

In order for that to change, a million other things need to change.

suck it up sunshine and take a position doing work that benefits your local or adjacent community

Will there be gruel?

Where do I collect my award?

In the flaming pits of hell!

Sure, I had the same problems when I wanted to travel from Scotland to Exeter and the train was more expensive than the plane, but I would have been claiming it back off the taxpayer. Decided it was better to take the train but it was hard to decide what my priorities were. No doubt Daily Mail types would be raging. (Took 9 hours)

Again if the true cost was reflected through a carbon tax or something these decisions wouldn't have to be made. Air transport companies would be forced to improve their planes or die off. It is a fucking disgrace that planes or long individual car journeys are ever cheaper than buses or trains, both in terms of our complete failure to tackle climate change and the appalling state of our public transport.

cleaner planes

Jet engines burn what is essentially diesel fuel, and inevitably produce volumes of NOx.
People lving under the flight paths of UK airports, and especially Heathrow, already live in an environment where the air quality is beneath safe levels.
That is why TfL and 5 local authorities recently engaged in a two-week High Court case against Chris Grayling as Transport Secretary for giving the go ahead for the 3rd runway at Heathrow.

It won't be forced, more reasoned.

It is a fucking disgrace that planes or long individual car journeys are ever cheaper than buses or trains, both in terms of our complete failure to tackle climate change and the appalling state of our public transport.

Amen

In order for that to change, a million other things need to change.

Agreed it'll be an incredibly complex change to bring about. Future generations might choose to disperse less widely to help reduce the complexity.

I have bureaucracy to deal with that is only possible in person. Part and parcel of having a dual nationality and “life admin” in two countries.

Top priority for me would be making that avoidable, sounds a right bind.

I’ve just read that Greta Thurnberg travelled by train to London and it took her 2 days (I assume from Stockholm?) wow props for that. Can I still support XR as long as I can still take city breaks and order tons of shit online?

Seriously where is Elon Musk and his Tesla planes?

It would be better to incentivise air carriers to focus on having cleaner planes and penalise those that don’t.

There is no such thing as a clean aeroplane (beyond hyper specialised solar panel powered single seaters).

And @ObiWomKenobi I think flying to Greece is far enough, compared to Italy which is really only ~24h on a train, that it becomes a much more sympathetic issue. Still problematic but far less easy to blame on the individual. Edit: and yeah, the humour didn't come over, so sorry for missing that

If you put in place a rule that effectively said that any flight must be 5/10% more expensive than the next most expensive mode of transport for that journey, and that airlines had to show what that option was, then people would be able to make conscious and often fairly easy decisions to see if the convenience of that flight is worth the environmental devastation that it causes.

You then dedicate that 5/10% specifically towards improving infrastructure, research or subsidies for the other modes of transport to make them more affordable and more efficient, hopefully further reducing the incentive to travel by air.

Results:

• poorer people would struggle to have access to air travel - a small, unavoidable price to pay though of course not ideal
  
• Less people would fly as it became a much more expensive proposition
  
• Other less destructive forms of travel would become better, more efficient and cheaper
  
• Airlines would go bust - unfortunate again but a small price to pay
  
• A massive decrease in emissions almost overnight
  

Buy them on Monday.

It seems way more likely that someone will figure out the technology (or already has) for a clean way for aeroplanes to fly, rather than change everyone’s behaviour to live locally and take the train to Italy.

Tech will fix it so I don't have to change my behaviour. Someone else's problem. Got it

No, divert attention and funds to finding a tech solution instead of playing drums in the street.

isnt playing drums in the street diverting attention to this?

Airlines have been trying for a long time to demand more fuel efficient planes as it saves them a lot of money and to a certain extent things have been improving but for medium-long haul flights it is hard to get away from fossil fuel due to its energy density

This thread has gone off on a tangent about aviation but while we are on it, what about airfreight? For example, supposedly 1.5m Africans rely on airfreight to provide access for their produce to the UK market, globalisation has made these things complicated