Extinction Rebellion

The guy’s trying to scrape it off?

Ah ok.

That’s not going to work.

:)

First I also thought, “why is a hardhat tagging (wearing camouflage??)” but I zoomed in and regrettably saw it was a scrubber.

Sorry, hadn’t looked close enough.

I'm am not sure why people above think I am a cynic. I am a cynic about one thing though. Some one post something and those that read it make assumptions and then dismiss. That's a general trend and means the conversations become circular and preach to the converted.

I am fully aware of what needs to be done with regards to climmate change. My background is physics. Climate change is well worn physics going back decades.

The public change behaviours if practical alternatives that are easy and no more expensive than what they have become available. Turkey's don't vote for Christmas. Much of the climate change debate is about giving something up. The left and green movement while all well meaning is a disorganised rabble all making noise but not real changing anything. So many voices saying the same thing yet managing to disagree with one another at the same time.

I am the effing converted and when I listen to whats being said by the protesters it turns me off. Imaging what it's doing to those who are not converted.

Not cynasim from me just the harsh reality the message needs work.

With regards to the above post I agree up until the point you said they change minds. Few people change there minds any more. Most people don't care or have opinions strong enough to change there minds. Most folk just want to get on with there lives and not have to think about this sort of thing. Protests that hope to open eyes and protesting in vain as most people's concerns are not connected to the future they are practical one like paying next month's bills.

If the green movement started to focus say on changing building regs to limit the amount of co2 emitted per square foot of floor space in construction and use that would be meaningful change. If the green movement would focus on getting transport policy in the u.k to offer alternatives to driving a car that would be great. I live in the shires and the blunt truth is you have to made keen on cycling to not use a car much here. I am mad keen but bluntly few people are. I can't even get a bus to work and back that does not cost me £8 per day and the last bus leave before my shop closes. I still have a 20 minute walk home from the bus station. Quicker to ride.

So the protest may be well meaning but it is all warm words. Most people don't vote for warm words. If the movement had practical goals both short term and long term beyond being carbon neutral by 2025 then you might find me less critical. I am not even sure if being carbon neutral is a goal. Its warm words because it can be achieved in so many ways.

In general poltics at the moment is full of warm words and promises without any clear idea of how to achieve them.

Flaming people who you disagree with is also counterproductive. These are the people you have to convince and your not good job with me and I am convinced.

Tl;dr - cynic

(I agree with most of that but, generic excuse)

I already know about alternative building materials. That's why I made the point I did. House don't have to be built out of bricks and cement.

I am not advocating apathy. Far from it. I am advocating realism.

What changed mind about the vietamn war were not the protests but the body bags arriving home. Funerals have a way of sharpening minds.

The Poll Tax demonstrations did make a difference. Change a flagship policy and ultimately leading to the downfall of Thatcher, thus ending an era in British life.

Actions can work, it isn't usual but there are examples out there, so it is worthwhile to try imo.

Have you actually been to London and seen what's happening, spoken to the activists?
In a few weeks this movement has grown and is remarkably well organised. It has very succinct messages.
It has brought together thousands maybe millions of people, many who have felt as though they were pissing in the wind for the last 30 years.
It has put the climate in the news and it has done it with some class.
Good luck doing any of that with a recommendation to change the building regs.

This is a good start. I feel it eventually needs to be happening in every city, town, and village too, not just folks travelling from near & far to London.

I know some folks organising a monthly action in mcr but it is quite small and would need many more people involved for any multi day nvda to be doable, if it is even within their aims.

Not sure how things will develop further, but watching with interest.

Please pledge not to fly (and honour that pledge):

https://www.flightfree.co.uk/pledge

Out in the shires life looks different. Regardless of how clear the messages maybe and how much in the news it is it is still preaching to the converted. The green lobby always has. Pulling the climate peril card no matter how valid simply does not open eyes. Brexit anyone. Until the environmental lobby starts talking language people understand little can change. The language should be how environmentally sound policies will save money not cost it.

Building regulations are one of those things if changed would have a very profound effect on cement and concrete usage. Cement and concrete account for 5% of co2 emmisions or something like that. There are new materials technologies that can help too.

Yet the UK is reducing it co2 emissions. Remember there is only do much change the public will take. No amount of climate peril will alter that, especially when no one can see it.

The 1.5 degree temp rise we must keep below is somewhat if an arbitrary figure. So the 12 years till we can't stop that rise from happening. That number will changes as models improve, it may get longer or maybe that boat has sailed. The point being the peril does not speed up our ability to change the pace of change. That will happen for economic reasons either because new technologies offer lower cost of government tax the cost of emmisions to change behaviour. Sitting in the streets does not do much in my view to make those changes happen. Only one mp has been elected on an environmental platform in the u.k. I don't see more coming do you? Locally the handful of green councilors in babergh are out numbered by Tories. Environmental policies outside the capital and Brighton barely register. In Sudbury the residents of cross street oppose the council plan to remove parking bays as the cars parked act as a pinch point causing traffic jams and elevated NO2 levels in the adjacent houses. There has been alot in the news about nitrous oxide pollution but residents can't bare walking 50m to the carpark up the road.

Travel to Malta, a Small island. Everyone drives, well gets stuck in traffic and they are all choking because of it. Yet car sales go up. There are more cars than people there and the busses can't move either.

So when I say minds are not being changed I mean it. If there is progress with the public its glacial in fact the glaciers are melting faster.

The left and green movement while all well meaning is a disorganised rabble.

I don’t think you can have paid much attention to XR and their methods.

Few people change there minds any more.

Nobody said it would be easy.

I agree that protest barely registers these days. I think that’s why XR are trying some polite civil disobedience. So far so good.

The point I am making the message turns folk like me off and I get the problem. That's the bit that your not getting.

Quoting XR is the problem. Your talking gobbledy gook to most people. I'll be more blunt. It looks like a metropolitan middle class protest. I know it's more than that but also know what it looks like. Yes I am paying attention.

Social media campaigns which are part of there methods just gather the like minded. Honestly they turn as many people off as they gather.

Looking at the XR website it is way too alarmist. We are not about to go extinct. Our civilisations may flounder in extreme climate change and global population maybe unsustainable but we are not there yet. A 5 degree temp rise could do it.

There was one line we must keep temp rise below 1.5 degrees to save life on earth. Life on earth survived the Permian extinction event that was a 15 degree temp rise and some larger reptiles survived which turned into the dinosaurs. Give me a break from this alarmist nonsense. Climate change is real I don't deny that or its consequences but the claptrap being spouted is just that.

Thats all I have to say on this.

Sadly you are wrong. Extinction Rebellion isn't called a rebellion to make friends. It is the start of a movement. If that moment gains enough momentum it will have a very profound impact on the political landscape.
As I am sure you know climate change is the biggest threat our species has ever faced.
I am sure you also know it wasn't discussed in parliament for two years, and the prompt that got it discussed was the school kids going on strike.
I am fairly certain it will be a fixture on the political landscape from now on.

I met a few people like you over the last few days. I met a lot more who are now activists who never would have been before we rocked up in our tents.
And I can reassure you this is not middle class metropolitan. I have been there, I know who I sat with on the road blocks, I know who I banged drums with.
And so what if it's a bit alarmist. What if we reduce the plastics, slow down the rate at which things go extinct, reduce the impact of flooding droughts storms and heatwaves.
Give me a break from your apathy. Go along and see for yourself instead of closing your mind completely.

(and btw, I find it much harder to take you seriously with all the spelling mistakes, it is well worth re reading your posts before you hit "post reply")

There are XR groups in many towns and it is simple to start one. A couple of volunteers will travel to wherever and run a few training sessions to get everyone familiar with the methods and policies, and then off you go.
All of a sudden loads of people pop out of the woodwork in your community and if nothing else you'll have a bunch of new friends. I only knew one person from my town in the group I work with. This is part of its strength. All those people are actually lots of well organised groups.
I have had some interesting chats on our roadblock with the police. When we told them we were on a shift system, and our shifts are half theirs in length he started moaning about the way they are being treated. They get no food and water, and have to go into a shop to use the loos. We brought kitchens and toilets!

I'm am not sure why people above think I am a cynic.

Have a look at your username.

CY-clecli-NIC

Actually no one last thing. Why should my parents feel guilty as Caroline Lucas has indicated about flying back from southern Italy to the u.k to see me and my sister. Your illustrious green no has said flying is a luxury and if we are serious about tackling climate change. My parents live in Italy because they have a better standard of living there as there pension goes alot futher. Also they like it. They like coming back to the u.k to see the children and grand children. We like going to see them and having a cheap holidays getting there by the environmentally sound car which produces less co2 per km than flying takes 4 days (you could do it two by yourself), the train takes just as long. A flight a day or alot less. According to Lucas my parents should be happy with there lot in Liverpool which is were there uk house is.

A friend of mine has a job were he is required to fly alot all over the globe. Follow XR arguements and he should leave his job and his company not sell internationally.

In fact that's the problem with XR arguments. There is a very visible streak of anti capitalism. XR supporters clearly state we cannot growing the economy that population has to come down. That's why the message does not get through. You asking people to feel guilty for living.

Your asking me to feel guilty for wanting to get on a plane later his year and fly to Calabria and enjoy a week with my parents and travel there another way so by the time I get there it time to head back.

I won't feel guilty for living. Neither does anyone I know. That's how XR looks to us.

Then there the vegan thing. We can't eat meat because its too emmisions intensive. So I should feel guilty about the roast lamb I will have today.

I am just being honest here that the message will not get through. It won't not because I am cynical because it the wrong message and in essence it's asking people to feel guilty about living.

You have just illustrated my point. You fail to see the how most people think.
That looks argogant. I am not a cynic. I ride to work everyday so I don't burn fossil fuels for o e reason. Also to keep fit. Sadly I have to eat more energy intensive, intensively farmed food which somewhat offsets the fuel saved by riding. But at least I rarely drive. Even when I need to visit Milton Keynes or Leighton buzzard 85 miles away for business I get on my bike and ride there. Cynic you say or maybe I'm doing my bit in my own way.

Read some Zizek... or any philosophy. Capitalism isn’t the only way, but if it was, not the capitalism we have now - as a recent opinion piece said even Zizek would agree with regulated capitalism.

Eat your lamb, but have it reared locally, humanely, and fed on grass that has no risk of pollutants, not battery farmed. Eat local. Support local business.

I spent time living in Italy. It is awful, everyone drives even 100m to the shop, buy bottled water because they don’t trust tap water, throw litter into the ocean. If someone wants to spend their days there, I hope their experience was more positive than mine, because at every turn I met hypocrisy. Why is it more awful than in the UK? It probably isn’t, but I sure as hell had an awful time being verbally abused because I was a foreigner and therefore I was wrong - wrong even about what time of day you can eat an egg.

My point is do what you want to do, but your experience is unique to you. I doubt you’ll find many here your advocate, not least because your arguments (just like I tried to illustrate with mine above) are highly reliant on anecdotal evidence.

Tl:dr the visible streak of anti-capitalism is likely due to the unregulated capitalism being largely to blame for irreversible damage to the planet