Can aluminium be heat treated twice?

Advice desparately requested from anyone with a definitive answer to the question whether an aluminium frame would be adversely affected in any way if it were to be stripped back to bare metal, new disc brake cable mounts welded on and then re heat treated? Or would it even need heat treating again?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

When u say alu. Prolly an alloy of.

I think if u brazed disc mounts on it shouldnt affect existing non?

ie lower temp weld.

Thanks for the reply. It's a long story but an aluminium frame I've ordered has been delivered to me without some of the necessary disc brake cable mounting hardware.

Their solution is for them to take it back, strip it, weld on the correct fittings, repaint it and return it.

I expressed concerns around welding aluminum weakening it (which is what the heat treating process is meant to rectify) but they've come back to say my only option is to return it for reworking without attempting to allay my concerns around how this might affect the integrity of the product. I heard that a second heat treating of a frame wasn't possible. You're overworking the material. But I might be misinformed.

I've been blunt and said I expect a new frame (what I ordered) not a reworked "second" or a refund. I probably wouldn't have taken such a stance if they'd attempted to answer my question in the first place.

Just wondered if anyone knew more about the materials science.

Cheers.

Don't know but I'd be doing the same as you regardless. New frame or refund, not a fix.

Thanks for that. Nice to know I'm not being unreasonable.

Worth noting, if the item you have bought is not fit for purpose ie faulty, you are not responsible for the return shipping costs, the seller is. They also must refund you any shipping cost you incurred for initial delivery of the frame too.
As far as I am aware

Thanks. It's from America so I've also got heavy import duties to consider on it. In their defence they've said they'll cover the carriage and any additional import duties but I still don't feel their lack of QC should mean I should accept a compromise. I've already had to wait longer for it than quoted and now further delay and stress.

What's really infuriated me is their "no refunds" blunt statement as if I've just got to accept the reworked frame option with a smile.

Ah shit, its the Spooky. If you don't get anywhere, I'd call them out on Twitter or something

There was some discussion about heat treating aluminium or not just recently in the tester approves thread. The treatment must relax/modify some microstructure and I can't imagine why a second treatment would have any further effect than modifying the microstructure around the new welds, but I am not a a materials scientist...

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/244356/?offset=775#comment14660861

Wait. Spooky forgot to add disc tabs to your frame? I’d return it for a refund and go plan B - that they forgot and their suggested remedy is ridiculous.

I think they didn’t put any cable guides on it

Uh...that they forgot to weld something on...!

That's really disappointing news, I'd been so excited for your Spooky build. At that price though I'd want another frame built and I'd want to see a picture of your new one beside the old gammy one to confirm it's a fresh one...

Can you claim back the import duty as it's a warranty issue?

Just email them a link to this thread ;)

Hi everyone. It's beyond ridiculous. It's not the only flaw actually. I was trying to get some opinions on the welding before calling them out publicly ie give them a chance to do the right thing. It is very embarrassing for them. I'll share more details depending on their response.

I really would highlight this thread to them...

A Mulholland was top of my wishlist for next road frame and their response to this situation is going to impact at least one likely future sale...

Wait. Spooky forgot to add disc tabs to your frame? I’d return it for a refund and go plan B - that they forgot and their suggested remedy is ridiculous.

Very much this. So for me the more important question would be how do you progress a full refund from a US company unwilling to do so?

What a horrible situation. I have often thought of ordering a frame direct from the US and will think twice about doing so

Trust me, my response to them has been very firm but fair. I'll keep you posted if they do the right thing. And I am fair so want to give them that chance. Ultimately I still want the gas mask as (fundamental flaws aside) it's a thing of beauty and purpose. But I won't accept any form of compromise from them.

If they stick to their hard "no refunds" policy and/or don't replace with a fresh frame (quickly) then I'll resort to taking up a grievance with both my credit card and PayPal as they insist on PayPal and I used my CC for extra security. Glad I did as I believe both should provide me with some level of protection here.

I thought we were talking about a budget frame like those polish fixed gear frames everyone ordered a few years ago.
Not a supposedly high end and so on product.

Depends on the grade of aluminium, not all are heat treated. Welding again maybe totally fine

True, 7000 series is air hardened I believe

Heat treatment de-stresses the alloy post-welding. Some grades need this, others no.

I doubt the manufacturer would offer to ship it back only for it to fail and you break your face and sue them, but also you're within your rights to want a new as-ordered frame, not a stripped and re-painted one you have no confidence in.

If it were me I'd want a straight refund and wash my hands of the shitty service, doesn't sound like they deserve much loyalty...

Surely sending a frame out missing a cable guide is just a huge indicator of poor quality control?

If they've missed that, what else has slipped through the net?

I'd be looking at distance selling regulations to see how possible it was to wash my hands of the whole thing.

Edit: Had a look at the Spooky site. They call the Gas Mask a 'custom' frame because you can choose the colour? When did they hire Danni Foffa?

All jokes aside though, isn't that gonna mean you are fucked? They'll say its a 'custom' item and aren't 'custom' items exempt from a lot of the purchase protection you get from using a credit card?

If it's just hose guides rather than caliper mounts, it'd be cheaper for them and better for you if they gave you a part-refund, sent you the guides in the post and you just epoxied the guides on.

Unfortunately there are other issues with it that I've not disclosed that render it a chocolate fireguard even if the brake routing could be bodged.

Interesting that it might be uncompromised by adding the mounts retrospectively (depending on the specific materials used) but I'm still massively irritated that they've ignored my concerns around this in their reply. And it doesn't change the fact that it's still a reworked, striped and painted "second" and therefore not something I'm prepared to accept.

I've not had a reply from them yet to my email of this afternoon. And thanks to everyone for their input so far BTW.