Ultracycling

Yes, but towing a lesser rider along for x miles is still putting them at an advantage over all the OTHER riders.

I wrote a website post about schermers neck, reminds me to post it!

http://jamesmarkhayden.uk/advice/schermers-neck/

50 Frenchmen sat on Bjorn's wheel for 550km in 2015!

If all they are trying to do is sit on someone's wheel and not thinking about the full distance, it's surely not out of the question. @skinny said he was doing 200W on the first stage last year: a lot of people could sit on his wheel at that power level - some for an hour, some a day, a couple maybe for a week - then try to get him in the sprint!

I think it probably would keep the race result open longer, but it is not going to happen in the TCR (#belessMike).

And I don't think it would be more exciting. James hunting down Bjorn across the middle of Europe in 2017 was far more exciting than any group ride + bunch sprint!

I've been getting some quotes for some PT so will be interesting to read. Thanks

50 Frenchmen sat on Bjorn's wheel for 550km in 2015!

And? That's draft legal event.

If by some miracle I sat on skinny's wheel for the first two days, do you think that's fair for anyone behind me?

I don't get your point? You're saying that people could hold a wheel. I know, I'm saying that by doing so, even if they're not victorious because the stronger rider could drop them, they've saved a tonne of energy and got further up the road than if they were under their own power.

This is turning into a PC vs. Mac argument.

Shit, lets start a helmet debate while we're at it.

Don't draft if the rules say no drafting.
Don't draft if the rules say no drafting.
Don't draft if the rules say no drafting.

Don't draft if the rules say no drafting.

I don't think anyone disputes that

The argument was about the hypothetical reasons for allowing / banning drafting.

In my opinion if you managed to hang onto Skinny's wheel for 2 days (and it was legal to do so) then yes you gained an advantage over others but you were able to hold the wheel while they weren't so that advantage is your reward.

Why can't I resist replying? Gah!! I will endeavour not to anymore so this thread can return to useful matters...

It’s an interesting discussion so don’t apologise for keeping it going. I think a lot of people don’t understand why the no drafting rule is in place so being educated on it is useful.

My point is that the tcr, or events like it, could not exist with drafting. It would not be safe, it wouldn't be fair and I don't even think it would be more exciting.
I think everyone has accepted the 'rules' point. I was addressing the other question raised which was are the rules arbitrary in not allowing drafting and could they ever be changed to allow it. I think the answer is no.

Someone tried to draft me in a race once. I told them to kindly notf They didnt, so Ijammed on my brakes and pulled over and gave them a piece of my mind.

I hate riding with other people, and in a race like this drafting just wouldn't really work. For reasons Frank mostly explained.

Yeah, PBP is a good example. Though in addition, in PBP, one of the reasons for the first groups to start as fast as possible might be to get away from the next start group that's trying to catch you. They'd be 15 mins ahead of you if you'd ride the rest of the ride together.

And obviously in a group as big as the start groups are, the group will keep splitting so you'll need to stay close to the front to not be in a dropped group.

In 2015 I started in the second start group of the 80 hour limit. The start on the more urban streets was rather hectic and speed was so high for my 48/17 that I didn't even try to stay with the fastest after a while, though we were still going well over 30km/h when we got to the first resupply point at about 150km, that was not a mandatory control, but still most did stop, so we continued in a smaller group.
During that first leg, when the fastest riders of the third start wave, a big group, passed our big semi-fast group, using both lanes, a car came to the opposite direction at the same moment. Could have been dangerous, but I think we got through with just a lot of yelling. But I think there was an accident in a similar situation ahead of us.

Other than that part, the group riding in PBP was beautiful, fluent. Very small groups mostly.

It'll be interesting to hear the advice given on TCR this year given the route situation.
Maybe they have a plan to overcome this, to prevent groups forming, given the start is TBC.
I appreciate there is also individual responsibility element as well.

I think I read what you were saying was counter to my post buy you were basically agreeing. I dunno any more. I can draft in TCR though right?

PBP does start like a handicap road race. Each group trying desperately to get into the 'faster' one ahead. In practice though, when I rode, the groups aren't actually handicapped so anyone strong in the first three groups at least ended up in a massive bunch that over the first day lost more and more riders. In a proper handicap, you'd all finish at almost the same time.
The bunch skills of some of the audaxers though leave a bit to be desired. Especially when they're pinging at their limits. If I rode this year my plan was going to be to ride it like a tourist with the missus. She's found her fun limit around 2-300k though so that ain't happening. PBP is much more enjoyable when it's not balls out.

Same reason that I don't race with a motor, it's making it unfair and not a solo effort.
The entire point of these races is a human-powered, solo effort from A to B.

If drafting was legal, I just say oi skinny I'll give you £10k to tow me to the finish, interested?

Or I'd get a mate with a scooter to motorpace at 50kph for the first day out of Belgium or whatever.

Electromagnetic tow rope on passing buses...

The argument was about the hypothetical reasons for allowing / banning drafting.

Indeed, most amateur mass start races[1] just ban drafting because amateurs are absolutely shit at it (although even the pros have massive crashes) and organisers don't want to be dealing with hundreds of broken people.

Drafting whilst swimming (open water at least) and running are far less dangerous and so they're rarely forbidden (the benefits of drafting doing either is obviously not as much as when cycling but it's still significant). Triathalopes definitely can't be trusted when cycling.

TTs are slightly different as it supposed to be an individual test, so banning drafting makes sense. This is where stuff like TCR comes in as it is supposed to be an individual test too.

PBP isn't a race for all but 60 people, and the pointy end used to be an official race and so drafting is accepted/expected.

[1] Where the focus is on position not time.

I'd ride it like a tourist if I go again too, and I might actually, but I did find a good slot with fast experienced riders that weren't racing, behind the fastest, well ahead of the big mass.

Are they still accepting entries?

Must

Not

Enter

Another

Event!

Yes it's open and I think there's still space.

Big benefit to the 'no drafting' rule is that it makes it mandatory not to be around other people. Heaven!

Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to post this.

Must

Not

Enter

Another

Event!

You could race TCR at a, err, leisurely pace and then arrive in Brest in enough time to have a few beers before starting PBP. It knits togther too well not to do it...

I know why I dismissed it unless it was with the missus - I'm racing Transiberica 2-3 weeks after TCR. Big month :S

He was being sociable. Helped Matthijs Ligt with a puncture just before the start if I am not mistaken and also accompanied a guy who crashed and broke his collarbone to hospital a little further into the race.

There you go: https://duracellbunnyonabike.com/2019/03/06/bikingman-oman-a-new-start/

Thought as much. He likes a chat does Donnach. :)