EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

"Socialist, Brexiter, Zionist" is a fun puzzle to put together.

Plus all the bloody old people are living bloody ages now. Wasn't so hard to look after your parents when they only lived to 70.

Maybe he's competing in a 'Smallest Venn diagram intersection' contest?

Plus all the bloody old people are living bloody ages now. Wasn't so hard to look after your parents when they only lived to 70.

But Brexit will bring a glorious return to the Britain of the past, including proper lifespans.

I think there are valid points which are essentially caring about other people whether that be family, local community etc.

Essentially there are three problems 1

1. The metropolitisation of wealth and opportunity (also internationalisation of) due to the policies pursued and what I consider to be a precarious mis-structuring of the economy over decades

2. The polarisation of wealth and dysfunction in any re-distribution of such ('trickle-down' being a bullshit concept propagated by the elite)

3. The hardness of heart in everyone and the system as we have largely become a self-centred, selfish society..it's all about me

The hardness of heart in everyone and the system as we have largely become a self-centred, selfish society..it's all about me

You think that might have anything to do with the fact that everything in life has become a competition and a race, with performance metrics and comparisons?

That GP should be signposting the lady to get a social care needs assessment from her local authority, not being a smug prick.

You think that might have anything to do with the fact that everything in life has become a competition and a race, with performance metrics and comparisons?

Sure. As well as the lies sold to make everyone consuming products, lifestyles etc in a vain attempt to fill the emptiness inside while at the same time making the rich richer!

Life has become horrific and completely detached from how we should live and our fear is being unable to exist if we do not conform, 'getting left behind' of 'getting ahead' justifies all kinds of wrongs and misery.

The 'race' is in large part due to the control of assets by a relative few and the existence of fractional reserve banking. A refusal by gov't to ever allow an elite to suffer a loss with the impact on real economy affecting everyone being the justification for bubble-blowing allowing asset prices to continually inflate ever further (and when the occasional hit happens, losses are socialised). Check out multiples of salary for the cost of ownership of a home for example from say 40y ago to now..

Competition in 'free' markets as an argument for efficiency and advancement is fallacious as it leads to a massive replication of effort and waste of resource. Capitalism is inherently inefficient.

Cha, I think this consumerism talk is true, but only half of the story.

Poverty is not fun, and in the UK is especially horrible. Some people work two jobs to keep their head above water, it is not even a "race" for status, but just to not fall down.

The economic disparities/problems with wealth hoarding, yep totally agree. But we are just the end-users. Even if we don't care about showing off/a rat race our pensions and everything are shrinking (I am late 30s and seeing it already) This chat on "we are so materialistic" feels a little bit like blaming the user.

Now if the user keeps voting for political parties that go against their interest cha...the user perhaps should go more on youtube/wikipedia and less on the daily mail/sun :)

This chat on "we are so materialistic" feels a little bit like blaming the user.

Not at all. We're essentially brainwashed and distracted from 1. the things that genuinely matter in life and 2. what is really going on that has resulted in the state we're in today

Poverty is horrific. As is loneliness, homelessness, sickness and old age. Having been wealthy/ successful and homeless, penniless I can tell you that you can't take anything for granted and the world is a cold, harsh place and one person forgotten and marginalised is too many.

Political parties are a problem in lack of vision and serving interests besides electorate (electorate not always knowing what's best for them is a problem too which requires a clear and credible vision and effective communication). At least Brexit has started breaking down the party structures and perhaps we'll end up with something more akin to Sweden which will prevent hegemonic abuse of electorates by a government.

No, because Sweden doesn't use FPTP, and until we get rid of that we're going to have pretty much the same as before (one strong party, one less strong party and a bunch of stragglers). But we probably won't get rid of FPTP because that would be really fucking hard, and the UK doesn't do hard political choices very well

I'm curious to know how many people would subscribe to a sound plan for restructuring and rebuilding the country irrespective of what it meant for their own short term personal situation?

The changes necessary run fr beyond 5y election cycles, and electioneering works on appealing to what near term perks appeal to the targeted electorates pockets/ situation to gain power.

Ok but...what am I supposed to do as end user? Aside from the political bits I think we agree on. Donating to charity / volunteering are options too.

The original discussion was sparked by some guy that is probably fine suggesting we should be around family and not move etc.

This is not an option if there is no work. As effectively you then become dependent on a system that doesn't work / nobody helps you bar underfunded charities.

Maybe what matters in life is being able to be economically independent. Because otherwise you end up as that marginalized person.

Not the most idealistic conclusion but that's the one I draw atm with an unemployed partner, a useless ex and a ten year old :)

Parklifes for everyone!

I hear you and it's the same situation that everyone is in, irrespective of whether they care beyond themselves or not. The system promotes charity/ volunteering as a way to appease those with a conscience as it prevents no threat to the status quo. That's not doing these things isn't good, it is, it just suits the system which shouldn't be marginalising these people in the first place.

I guess the first point of importance is that we all have a change of heart and think beyond ourselves, that's necessary to get through anything intact.

Beyond that, it's a tough one as it requires real world changes and a system which is ruthless and paranoid about it's own fragility as it relies upon everyone being enslaved through necessity, fear or greed while effectively dis-empowering everyone to create apathy or requiring their submission to attain positions of influence.

While we all rely on the system, it equally relies on us and falls to bits very fast if everyone refused to participate. The problem is that this results in anarchy and chaos with adverse effects for everyone. Without an alternative then that's ill advised.

So, effecting change requires address of the mechanisms through which disempowerment occurs and the formulation of compelling and understandable alternatives to gain commitment.

It was the religious people...

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/20/how-anglicans-tipped-the-brexit-vote/

J Hunt continues to sabotage trade deals

Yes, the would be exporter of marmalade proves despite his expensive education,
he is still thick enough to be a Tory.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47348610

Meaningful vote delayed until March 12. FFS!!!

That was always the plan. Let it go down to the wire.

Congratulations to everyone involved.

An economic fuckery worse than the 2008 bank crash or complete disaster.

What is parliament good for ATM?

Parliament seem determined to not allow a hard brexit. So, either the EU cave with an agreeable amendment that will get through (or hard brexiteers back down), or parliament will have to force an extension (a revocal of A50 being too contentious).

If the EU haven't caved at the wire (or the hard brexiteers backed down), there seems little reason why the EU would then budge on negotiation, in which case handing the outcome back to a referendum would seem to be the only viable option?

Jesus, now business have no choice but to plan their own withdrawal.

The EU won't cave because the UK can't get an agreement on the backstop to keep peace in Ireland though...that May signed off!

So it looks like May's crappy WA as an extension is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic unless May offers a single market / customs union brexit OR nothing unless parliament blocks a no deal and backs a vote.

Or May resigns and more chaos reigns.

Talk of the EU offering a 21 month extension. But May will surely try to stay on for that, so stasis seems likely even if the extension happens