EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Rascist C**ts.

Just trying to fit in.

I think there is a lot of dishonesty, say the UK really wants WTO terms. [even if they get it as it was already posted here New Zealand is objecting] and gets it.

Maybe it can be made "good" by trading with Africa and buying agricultural produce as they can't compete with agricultural subsidies here, sort of a more lefty/socialist Brexit, but it will mostly wipe out farming and it will also cause losses in service jobs unless the UK can negotiate services access like it has with the EU.

Don't see either how deals will be got w/o easier immigration, and since immigration and anti globalisation sentiments drove part of the vote, well that's gonna be a hard sell.

The BRIC countries, again, lots to gain maybe for the UK but the distances are higher which does harm goods trade, and it will wipe out some jobs. Services? Maybe, but except easier immigration for their people as a tradeoff.

Oh, and the slight problems with Gibraltar/Northern Ireland. And that negotiating these things take 10 years...at least.

Even if something exciting can be done, it will come at great sacrifice. And all the free market economists will go "yeah you lost your job, too bad, market forces, winners and losers innit?". We can also still end up with a Brexit that harms the BRIC countries/Africa AND makes us losers too as we have no input/control at all over it.

I think Patrick Minford tried to hammer some of this out but he's also a xenophobic asshole so I am not going to read his stuff, but maybe something in there. And he said his Brexit would harm UK farming, so at least there's some honesty.

https://www.suffolkfreepress.co.uk/news/glemsford-factorys-brexit-warning-is-not-a-bluff-says-mp-9005404/

"He pointed out that while many Brexit supporters are angry the Prime Minister proposes maintaining a common rule book on industrial goods with the EU, Philips has to follow those rules anyway for its trade, so a new UK rule book would simply add a new layer of red tape.

“It is striking to hear of the way in which Philips exports all around the world from its Glemsford plant,” he said. “Strong trade links with the EU is not the detriment of non-EU trade."

If such an outcome transpired, it [Phillips] would immediately implement an existing plan to relocate production elsewhere, most likely to mainland Europe.

Immediately is a word that leaves an impression in that sentence. I'm sure there's a host of companies that can and will do this, and have already spent the money on how to do it. On the other side, I really doubt there's a single company that will immediately move to the UK after Brexit.

Dutch company director, says it like it is.

The English (northern Irish people are more direct) "we could possibly..." that may very well mean "we will" is not really used in the Netherlands, it is just pure "yeah we are going if X and then we go".

For all we know Nissan is also immediately going bit not saying it as such?

Nissan in particular (and other car manufacturers in general) will definitely go, they're steeped in JIT implementation and they won't risk it. They also won't risk the cutover from Sunderland to new site being anything other than seamless (read unfortunately ruthless to employees) when it does happen.

Political upheaval is an operational risk against which they hold capital to cope with so they'll be able to cover with the costs of moving.

(Cue another discussion about JIT. )

New Zealand is objecting

I have a feeling this could be just the tip of the iceberg, Spain have an axe to grid over Gibraltar, Argentina would have a chance to make life difficult over Falkand islands.

India has stated that they require preferential visa treatment (i.e visa in name only travel) and extended stays for Indian students after graduation before entertaining negotiations.

Australia has stated that they require freedom of movement of people in return for negotiations.

JWestland hinted at deals with African countries, well 14 of the more economically positive ones have just signed deals with the EU so are perhaps going to prioritise them over us.

Plain sailing it is not. I understand that there is literally no state in the world that trades on blank WTO any more, after Vanuatu reached their first deals 7 years after accession to the WTO.

Vanuatu reached their first deals 7 years after accession to the WTO.

Key points there

1. 7 years for a trade deal
   
2. It's only one deal
   
3. It's Vanuatu
   

JIT is just project fear, right? :p

Meantime the bank of England is preparing plans to stop assets being moved outside the UK after Brexit to stop another financial crash.

But, OK, Rees-Mogg is already prepared with this Dublin funds and we can reap the benefits in 50 years. When we are dead or our still living brains are rented to wetware processing power.

Our UK raised brains won't be the ISO standard required.

Ah now, don't be so hard on yourself. If you can make tea you are in

https://www.iso.org/standard/8250.html

ISO 3103:1980
Tea -- Preparation of liquor for use in sensory tests

What about those forin people that came here in the in the 60's and never got citizenship, been here since they were 21 and have now retired? What about those forin people buried here, what happens to them?

But hey 350million a week.....

Brexit is probably not going to happen.

If you want the UK to stay in the EU, go out and hug a Leaver. Then listen to their concerns. #nobrexit is happening so we have to plan what kind of society we want after A50 is withdrawn.

https://news.sky.com/video/public-turning-against-brexit-and-believe-it-will-be-bad-for-the-country-11453903

I need to catch up on the thread but this from Fox seemed rich.
Pot, meet kettle.

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Pretty ‘woke’ analysis.

You couldn’t be more wrong if you think that 17m people in the U.K. genuinely think like that. And the fact that when explicitly asked to open your mind and debate, you prefer to project some ridiculous picture of 90% of leavers being racist / thick rather than actually listen makes you just as much a part of the problem as the ideological Leavers.

Just try thinking instead, it’s not that hard.

30-ish % of the country has been fucked by a combination of globalisation, poor investment in education and social responsibility, lack of skills and the country’s dependency on london centric services. They are excluded and marginalised. Their lever is “burn it all to the ground”, ie Brexit. The solution is not to call them thick racists. It’s to solve the underlying problems together.

'It’s to solve the underlying problems together.'
How can the problem be solved together when they repeatedly, unthinkingly vote for their antagonists?

Exactly. It's like shooting yourself in the face and complaining about getting blood on the carpet.

It’s to solve the underlying problems together.

How this is going to happen in a post-Brexit UK is beyond me.

Or seeing blood on the carpet, and shooting yourself in the face to fix it.

Then shooting yourself in the crotch for good measure, and blaming the carpet shampooers.

Get Brexit cancelled then work on the underlying issues. I see that as an election winning strategy for Labour.

As @freddo says above there are genuine reasons.

Labour need to fix our press, media, vote rigging, fake news as well as lack of good jobs, opportunities for the young, NHS environment etc.

Their lever is “burn it all to the ground”, ie Brexit. The solution is not to call them thick racists. It’s to solve the underlying problems together.

If damaging the sectors of the economy that bring in the receipts is their answer then thick doesn't doesn't begin to cover it.
Racism/xenophobia by proxy, what's the diff?

I never got the luxury of staying in my hometown and expecting a job for life out of school without a degree either.

How can the problem be solved together when they repeatedly, unthinkingly vote for their antagonists?

Good, now we’re getting somewhere. Under what circumstances might a person make what appears to be a poor choice?

they vote for the party that doesn't give a fuck about them instead of one that would help them

Which party would that be then?

For whom or what should they vote for to improve their circumstances? (I’m fully aware how condescending I must sound but bear with me)