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Parklife!
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That's the thing, it's easier to understand the mindsets of people in that position. But there were millions of people - probably the majority of the total leave population - who have lived a prosperous lifestyle for the last few decades and still voted for it.
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Undoubtedly some did vote leave because they were racist but the patronising response that all Brexit voters are racist or too stupid to understand.
I haven't been following this thread long but I don't see much of that here. It's more commentary on the clusterfuck it has inevitably become and flinging poo at the carousel of cretins in charge, not voters.
Bear in mind there is no significant majority "will of the people" on Brexit, for leaving or remaining.
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They're not though, and haven't been for years, so what other choice did people have? If you're already at the bottom then if you shake things up the worst that can happen is
...that you learn a new definition of 'bottom'
Just sayin'. Things can always get worse.
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You could easily also argue that the Brexit voters you talk about see immigrants as less than them. Even if they are not openly racist, because most people are not.
Rather than engaging and unionising together immigrants are seen as "the problem". Poor immigrants are ripe for exploitation beyond what the local workforce would accept (which you point out)
The Greens actually DID say that in some areas, because of a fast influx of immigrants, there was more pressure on services and the gains should be more fairly distributed.
There are also possibilities to limit immigration under freedom of movement, which can be taken. I understand some of the frustrations as an EU immigrant myself who has had to put up with nearly 2 years of Brexit shit.
But if somebody cares f-all about if their immigrants colleagues will get problems due to Brexit [and I know there was an immense amount of lying about this by the Brexit team as they promised there would be no issues, which they could not promise as nobody is held to account in referendums] there is a sympathy deficit in response.
But, perhaps the leave team knew all this. They have exploited the NHS money, take back control promises and immigration lies [turkey? lol] ignoring the anger and anguish that would come when nothing was done.
And now people that think the bottom was reached may find out there is another cellar under the cellar they are in. The whole thing is massively cynical.
But I am also fedup as being "part of the problem" all the time. So this is what is has done, we are all pissed off with each other [sometimes for good reason] while Mogg is laughing all the way to his Irish funds.
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Racist or not, all leave voters are idiots, my mum included.
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This thread is really just a big echo chamber. A load of people in London (a reasonable proportion earning significant salaries and owning expensive houses) pointing at Brexit voters and declaring them all racist idiots. You can see why a lot of people in deprived towns thought Fuck you, what relevance does this have to us.
To the extent that this thread has become a bit one note recently, it's that it's become mostly insults to the incompetent and dishonest politicians who are steering Brexit. That's because Brexit has moved from the phoney war stage to the actual disastrous implementation stage.
The imagined contempt for the less privileged is something you have imputed, with little or no evidence. Your whole long post is, while a reasonable description of some of the realities of Brexit and motivations, a declaration that you have thought of all these things and the rest of us haven't. Not just that we haven't thought of these things through simple oversight, but that we do so out of blind prejudice.
Get in the sea.
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This thread is really just a big echo chamber. A load of people in London (a reasonable proportion earning significant salaries and owning expensive houses) pointing at Brexit voters and declaring them all racist idiots. You can see why a lot of people in deprived towns thought Fuck you, what relevance does this have to us.
If you want to reduce the argument to this level of analysis: I grew up in a city that topped Europe's murder and poverty rates, and still outstrips the rest of the UK/EU for public health issues, has suffered enormously from liberalisation and Tory economic policy but remains emphatically pro-EU in outlook (68% remain).
Why? We've not lost sight of who the cunts are that fucked us then and continue to fuck us now. There's still a percentage of self-hating McGammons who have been indoctrinated into Unionist ideology through generations of political divide and conquer exploiting religious fault lines, but thankfully they're a minority and are rightfully derided for the corrosive nasty social influence they are in a way that the kippers down south should have been too. Funnily enough, May made a deal with the DUP that helps sustain and legitimise these imagined grievances and acts against years of hard won political progress for her own self preservation.
And FYI I don't live in London now, have no assets to speak of and am looking to move permanently to the EU just to guarantee a basic standard of living because there's less and less of a chance of finding it here and I don't want to waste another decade of lost opportunity thanks to austerity and recession.
But ye. Keep telling yourself this small, niche cycling forum is an echo chamber representative of a wealthy urban elite, symbolic of some kind of anti proletarianism if it helps you ignore the fact that the UK is one of the most rapaciously right wing countries in Europe, driven by the Murdoch dominated press on behalf of offshore trust funds, and that takes advantage of poor disenfranchised people by both promoting policies that act against their interests whilst sheltering their own wealth from taxation, and then drip feeding them the message that it's all Jonny Foreigner's fault they can't get ahead.
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@aggi
This thread is really just a big echo chamber. A load of people in London (a reasonable proportion earning significant salaries and owning expensive houses) pointing at Brexit voters and declaring them all racist idiots. You can see why a lot of people in deprived towns thought Fuck you, what relevance does this have to us.
Any questioning of free movement of people is shouted down as racism. People point out that immigrants are net contributors to the economy without taking into account the impact on local workforces (a number of studies suggest that the net contributor figure doesn't stand up when this is taken into account).
When people look at the local factories and see what used to be reasonably paid roles gradually being replaced by foreign, non-unionised labour on the minimum wage I think they're entitled to wonder what benefits the EU has brought them.
It's become a race to the bottom in many cases, unscrupulous owners know they have a ready supply of cheap labour, often not that familiar with UK employment rules and less likely to kick up a fuss, so they can push the pay and working conditions down and replace them at will.
The response to this is generally, that isn't the EU's fault, the UK government should be doing more about it. They're not though, and haven't been for years, so what other choice did people have? If you're already at the bottom then if you shake things up the worst that can happen is you stay at the bottom. It's no coincidence that if you look at the 20 most deprived local authorities, all but a couple of them voted to Leave.
Undoubtedly some did vote leave because they were racist but the patronising response that all Brexit voters are racist or too stupid to understand.
Before the vote the lack of willingness to engage was one of the reasons that Remain lost. The continuation of that is partly contributing to the fact that most of those leave voters are still pro-leave.