Wahoo Elemnt

Yeah I've raised a case with wiggle but haven't managed to find a minute to send it back. Also in an unrelated recent incident (way after it started giving me crap elevation data) my out front mount snapped and fell off, so it's got a bit of a scratch on one corner. Kinda worried they'll try to use that as an excuse not to replace it...

Can you not edit the pages without the wahoo connected?

Some really big limitations.

Why when I zoom out on the map, do half the roads disappear. What's the point in having a map if the roads won't show.

Maps pointing north up only, how counter intuitive. Why not track forward, if you can't change!

Not sure who's giving the product testing advice at wahoo, but they're not too good.

You can at least change the map orientation. I thought the same but there is an option somewhere.

Browsing the map is pretty crap, I generally end up resorting to phone. Garmin was definitely better in that.

Where? I can’t see it.

Yup. Impossible to work out where to go, as all the roads disappear!

I remember it asking me which way it to point it. I'll get my bolt at lunch and see where it is for you.

Thanks no rush. Maybe it’s bolt thing. I’ve just the elemnt.

On that point. How confusing is the naming!

I'm pretty sure you can switch orientation of map.

Unlike with Garmins I think of Elemnt/Bolt/whatever as being something that only really works in conjunction with phone if you're doing anything beyond recording rides. For any sort of complicated routing or navigation beyond what's within a KM or two, I would always go to the phone app or google maps to look at the route. Which is a big limitation compared to Garmins.
But, unlike Garmins I've found my Bolt to be utterly reliable which outweighs everything else - based on using a Bolt for various audaxes over the last year or so I have had zero issues whatsoever - these days I happily load up 200km+ routes as one track and assume it will always reliably provide me with a line to follow at 3am, which is something I never felt a Garmin was good for.
One slightly confusing thing I only worked out recently is while the arrows on the track your following disappear once you've zoomed out to a certain level, the track still shows up as a slightly bolder line that isn't immediately obvious.
I presume you're consdering using Wahoo for TCR? For me I'd have thought the higher reliability would make it worth it if you have GPX tracks on your phone you can load onto it as backup. But obviously does make you more dependent on phone.

I thought you sent yours back?

This is why as much as I hate Garmins, they're still the best option for what I (and probably you by the sounds of it) need to do.

The annoying thing about wahoo is that despite having produced the most reliable hardware they seem to be too oriented towards the sports side of bike GPS so the navigation stuff seems accidentally good rather than deliberately so. Also all the #wahooligan marketing is really irritating.
I do think there's some sense in not trying to replicate complicated mapping in the GPS when everyone carries a phone.
I suspect there's some really good ultra long distance navigation solution involving Komoot or RWGPS and a Wahoo, but at the same time I wouldn't be taking any risks on TCR if Garmins have worked well enough before.
Would there be any merit in running a Bolt alongside a Garmin? The weight is pretty negligible.

I make routes on RideWithGPS during the week and then load them up at the weekend. I then spend zero minutes thinking about navigation when I'm on the bike, other than glancing down occasionally to check I'm on track. If I stray from the route, either accidentally or because I want to, I've never found it difficult to get back to it or pick it up a few kilometres down the road. If I got really lost or wanted to alter the route I'd whip my phone out, easy peasy. It does exactly what I want it to do.

Yeah tcr. Just testing the water at the moment.

Thing is, when the Garmin works it’s great.
Perhaps the wahoo works all the time, but this thread does have instances of issues.

@hippy still got it. Want to give it a proper test.

If I got really lost or wanted to alter the route I'd whip my phone out

But that only works with a data connection at the moment, yes?

Cool. I'd still love to not give Garmin any more money but Wahoo needs to get a lot better before I jump ship.

Yeah don’t jump ship yet. Wahoo isn’t good enough.

Based on the last year of moderately long route (but not TCR level) navigation, I definitely feel like I'd be happier using a Wahoo on TCR than a garmin. I've certainly seen far more disastrous things happen with Garmins (ask @coldharbour).
But it totally depends how much re-routing you need to do along the way. If you have your route totally pre-planned and can have a stack of back up GPX files on a phone you could bluetooth to a Wahoo that seems quite reliable. But if you're dealing with a road closure in the middle of the night and there's no data connection I could see that you might be in trouble. Though I guess in this instance google maps saved offline as back up would allow you to manually find a route back on track.
I don't know why Wahoo don't actively work with people doing TCR style rides as a means of then marketing them to audax type riders - I've always felt that if something works for you ultra long distance people then it proves it's suitable for 400-600km type rides. I suppose it's not a huge market compared to the sports one, but any audax facebook group is full of people moaning about garmins and contemplating buying a wahoo.

Good points. It bugs me about zooming out, I often use that feature to determine how far it is to the next town and what size/ammeneties it might have. The garmin will display all the roads, allow me to move the map around, and will then show the amenities on the map.

My use is far beyond most people, so I can't bash it overall, their are a lot of things I like about it (hence giving it a go) but I think there are some very fundamental issues, that would be simple to fix, yet wahoo haven't noticed.

Yes, I can see the zooming out to investigate places ahead is important - In fact on a smaller scale, thinking about my ride to Bristol on Saturday night, this is something I had to pull out my phone for when looking to see if I was getting to anywhere big enough to have an open garage. And that is something Garmins can actually do quite easily.
I guess it's because Wahoo store maps in a totally different & simpler way.
Handlebar phone mount and Wahoo alongside? Best of both worlds?
But realistically given your past achievements, sticking with a Garmin probably best option. What's made you consider not using a garmin? Just the unreliability?

i've had 5 garmin 1000s in 3 years... When they work they're great.
I wanted to see if someone had made a product that was equal, but reliable. A bunch of other racers said they use the wahoo with success, but I can only assume we have different needs and standards.
For me it't not quite the whole product, alone. I don't like to be using my phone, seems like more faffing.

I'll keep using the wahoo and see how I get on with it, just a bit disappointed with these few small issues. Mainly because I really wanted to like it, and be rid of the garmin.

Yes, I think the problem is it's just a bit too different to a 1000 - I think wahoos are pretty great, but only if used in conjunction with a phone. Which doesn't sound like an option for you.

I went from a Garmin 800 (ok once used to its various quirks and workarounds) to an 810 (totally useless) so there was less dissapointment, whereas 1000 sounds great if it's working.

a heads up to those considering wahoo for long distance stuff

I've had issues with wahoo failing to load big (200km+) GPX files when transferring across a bluetooth connection. I would also ensure the files were loaded using a USB cable if I was doing something high stakes like the TCR.

When it's paired to your phone in the settings tab you can select rotate maps under the location and maps heading. Hope that's what you need.

Well that just put another nail in the coffin. I’ll try that.

Given it doesn’t have micro sd. If the Bluetooth won’t transfer you’re fucked. At least with Garmin you can put a spare sd card in after doing a hard reset.

Will check. Thanks.