MGOOF : Modern groupset on old frame

Any chance you could go into more detail on it?
Anyone else done it and can allay my fears? My main concern is fucking up the frame and dropout alignment. Obviously.

Hi there Mashton...
I can offer up my own personal experiences yes. :-)
It tickled me a bit when you asked to go into more detail though as this part of the whole build was as it turned out.....awkward. I've skimped on the detail and like all my own source references missed a whole load out. Making it look a lot easier than it actually was.

I started off with an absolute need to cold set the rear stays from the existing 120mm to 130mm. Sheldon reckons you can get away with it by springing the dropouts if you are 1 spacing width difference i.e. 126mm to 130mm. He argues the resulting risk of damage is unlikely. But a larger gap such as where I was then it needed to be done.

I was on a budget. Furthermore, I was also on a mission to do absolutely everything myself (self consumed man project mindset). The fever was high; I'd never built up a bike before, hadn't ridden a bike for the best part of 30 years although I did race as a schoolboy in the Eighties. In addition, the fever had set out that I would build the wheels tie and solder them (something else I have never done before) or die doing it. Perhaps some of you middle aged fellas will recognise the symptoms?

I digress.

'Internet' suggested this was a fairly straightforward exercise.

'Internet' lied.

I started using the threaded rod method.

(I can't seem to upload fresh piccies of my set-up. matters not - I used RJ The Bike guy's video on the same. He adjusts from 126mm to 130mm iirc, there is a link on this thread just a few pages back by Colonel of Truth.)

I successfully used this method to increase the rear-stay width to 130mm.
RJ's video covers it off very nicely. I would add that the degree the steel needs to be stressed in order to reach that yield point where it starts to set (bend) is quite significant.

1. It felt to me that you could deliver a baby horse through the rear stays during this exercise. It is a good illustration on just how bendy steel frames actually are!
   
2. Quite the force is required to take the stays to their yield point....you can really feel it through the spanners as rearstays spread.
   
3. You can feel the energy trapped in the assembly as you crank up the spread. Creaking noises happen as the threaded bar nuts and washers tense... It's just fine. (Can be very disconcerting truth be known - retrospect brings about calm)
   
   

RJ's method covers off the procedure really well. It is fairly time consuming as it's bit by bit remeasure etc. etc. I took it all fairly slowly and it took me a few hours to do. Specifically finding that point where the bending actually happens. Once you find that point then you learn and feel mm by mm the nature of what you are trying to do. For the first couple of hours I was repeating the exercise over and over and it hadn't moved! LOL. This is the right way to do it too. small steps, increment by increment.

Dead easy. 130mm spacing bang on. Make a cup of tea and check frame alignment...

I used the string method. measure the gap between the seat post and the string. All being well the gap should be the same on the left as it is on the right. Cheap and cheerful, albeit a while to set up and measure (when you do it multiple times - more on that later).

I was around 3mm off centre after that exercise. Each stay had spread at a different rate.

Here is the rub.... The threaded bar method applies equal force to each side. So there is no correcting it or control over it using this method.

I had to resort to the plank of wood method to cold set each stay independently of the other.
Sheldon offers up a picture of the same to illustrate...

He suggests anchoring the far left of the plank and applying leverage through raising the headset.
I couldn't get a suitable anchor point when I tried this. I was in my front room! It sounds okay in principle BUT the energy required to bend these stays is significant. Such anchors do not exist in my apartment! not with the length of plank required anyways!

So....I changed the method slightly so I could do it in a smaller space...with a smaller plank.

Note. in the above picture the use of books:
I squeezed them into the gap to maximise my leverage. I also used books underneath the seat tube so the assembly wasn;t putting pressure on the lower stay.

This was an ungainly arrangement. Rinse and repeat: getting a feel for the yield point by remeasuring, repacking with more books, installing string and checking alignment.

Overdoing it and reversing....a process of iteration until I was within a half mm difference alignment and at 130mm.

It took a loooong time and it was VERY tiring. see point 9 and 10 below.
This was the worse bit...over and over and over again. The setup and set down saps you.

There was a whole load of nervous tension through the exercise too. I was worried I would screw it up etc. etc. Steel is a forgiving mistress. Chill out. Worse case scenario is that you can't get the alignment to what you want it....go to your local bike shop. They will bail you out.

In summary:

1. if you are at 126mm and need 130mm leave it be. It's fine. Maybe worth checking your frame alignment in this configuration to see all is well with the 130mm wheel in situ. using the string method.
   
2. Try the threaded bar method. If your alignment is true after the event...all good. If not..
   
3. Go for the lumber and lever method.
   
4. Take it slowly and measure and check regularly. The trick is to get a feel of where the yield point is. Thereafter you can start the incremental setting of the stay. I spent most of my time finding this point (the process of removing measuring and stringing over and over again to realise you haven't moved anything any distance at all is a pain in the bum....but it is part of the process)
   
5. Steel is massively forgiving. if you overdue it....then it can be undone.
   
6. you wont snap your frame. It's fine. you aren't strong enough.
   
7. It will take quite some time and can be tiring.
   
8. The bike shop have the right tools (there is a special tool for it), experience and environment to do this very quickly at a reasonable price. Don't be ashamed to go ask them to do it for you.
   
9. Was I happy I cold-set myself? Yes I would have it no other way. You learn a lot about your frame when you go through this.
   
10. Would I cold-set again? No. see 8 above.
    
11. Would I suggest you do it yourself? No. I'd suggest going to a bike shop. I would however be quietly impressed if you had a go yourself. It's emotional!
    
    

Probably rambled on here.....

apologies if I have.

Sand_Dune

---

1 Attachment

•