EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQWuiglWsAEvQPO.jpg:large

Reading the live feed of Davis' statement I'm reminded about just how much I despise the phrase 'I don't accept that' in politics.

So you can be shown to be demonstrably wrong, with facts and figures to back up the opposite of what you've said, all to be brushed aside with an 'I don't accept that'. Truly infuriating.

Am I being to optimistic in thinking/hoping that this brexit farce might mean the end of the nasty party as we know it?

whats a brexiteer's theory on all this? I am guessing 'it will be a bit painful but we will get through' or something ..

Or if it's a lexit one "current system is broken, let's destroy it and finally have our revolution" ;)

I guess because even at the extreme ends of the socio economic spectrums of Brexit votes either have nothing to loose.

Well...

War on Want came out as Brexit
The refugee deal with Turkey is somewhat iffy
And the hard lefties I know are proper socialists and have seen the nasty treatment of the boat refugees, it's not that the EU or the UK are THAT bothered.

I can understand if you've seen people crushed by "the system" a distant view is hard to sell. [unless you have become a hardened cynic, and I admire the work and idealism of these people i know]

But yes maybe they think they have nothing to lose and are wrong, or genuinely don't have anything to lose, but then what about the rest of us? The lack of strategic thinking really baffles me.

But yes maybe they think they have nothing to lose and are wrong, or genuinely don't have anything to lose

yes, this.

I am genuinely looking for outside the bubble views on the current state of affairs. How is this justified in the bigger picture that Brexiteers have.

Well, it seems some people value things like "country" and "freedom" and "the EU has done bad stuff" over "can I eat and work?"

Welcome to humans, where imaginary concepts sometimes take over.

The leave campaign of course knew this, and input things like "sovereignty" "democracy" and terms they didn't define well, added a sprinkling of £ (THE bus) and then some basic fear mongering (immigrants)

Lexit, in fairness, pointed out -some- things the EU isn't doing right like how they treat refugees...there is no compromise with Lexit. No realpolitik. And, if I am being unkind, not enough cynicism.

I'm of the type that if by following your ideals you end up with WORSE results, you need to adjust. Others would say that muddles everything and compromises you. It's not a question that has a "right" answer. So, I sorta respect people with left ideals, but it's still dumb.

But even with a lexit, we'd all be much poorer, and economic downturns cause victims...especially if the left is not in power.

(you could argue it's just hubris to call for this in tory country, I mean come on....that's the revolution bit maybe, break the system and hope people come to you?)

Just my option of course, as some economists say leaving the EU isn't' a biggy, I seriously doubt that. But of course if you think they are right, then there's no poverty problem.

In the more disaffected regions where there's not much wealth and low social mobility there is also the view that 40 years in the EU hasn't made much of a difference, life is still shit, what have we got to lose. That view isn't really going to be changed by impact assessments or the lack of.

yep good point.

They need to understand that its actually the 30+ years of neoliberalism from the Tories and New Labour that has caused this, not the EU

They need to understand that its actually the 30+ years of neoliberalism from the Tories and New Labour that has caused this, not the EU

I agree, but the EU isn't exactly immune to the same problem. It's obviously shaped by its constituent governments, and it's been mainly right-wing governments that have shaped it in that same time period.

Yesterday’s events summed up in one picture. What a shit show.

I half-watched a TV program on the Channel Tunnel last night and one of the "characters" was a brexiteer lorry driver. His vote seemed to mainly be based on the ability to keep low-cost eastern European hauliers out of the UK. I can understand this logic, although he did also concede that supermarket shelves might be a bit bare if we stopped all imports. He didn't seem to make the connection that filling supermarket shelves (or Amazon warehouses etc) is the main reason his industry exists. I think he might fall into the "couldn't get any worse" category.

Last night on R4 there was an interview with a business owner of a manufacturer of dehumidifiers and water coolers.
His argument was tariffs etc aren't deals breaks just frustrations. All you need on business is a good product people want to buy. He thought leaving was good.
6 of his 250 employees are from the EU, he thinks Eastern European immigrants naming Romania as effecting the labour market due to their volume.
Of course this was the other foreigners not the friendly Ines he employees.

I suppose summary of his view would be the new joiners are getting more than they are giving to the EU and that leaving is just change we have to deal with.

Reports this morning suggest he is planning a Nasty Party leadership bid.

It's not known exactly how many supporters he has, but somewhere between 50 and 60.

What he didn't get asked is whether his "good product" would continue to sell strongly in France when its 30% more expensive, or whether he'd modelled what happened to his business when raw material prices have a similar hike.

Before I get any more incredulous about this, that photo is David Davis right? The incompetent one we were all talking about yesterday?

He is playing 4D chess.

Very good :)

The very same.

Did you listen? I was surprised how unchallenged he was? Has the series been like this?