EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

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  • And this is why I am so glad that by an accident of birth location I should be able to get an Irish Passport.

  • We need a hard to refute slogan that ties the idiocy of brexit to each persons economic outlook;
    'Hard brexit: You lose your job
    Soft brexit: Your neighbour loses their job
    No brexit: Your children have jobs'

  • 'Brightest & Best' necessarily excludes politicians.
    Realise this is trite, and the negotiations should be carried out by experienced senior Civil Servants/Diplomats, but with dePfeffel/Davis/Fox in charge of brexhit we have lost before they take their seats at the table.

  • We need an honest debate. People think that we can have our cake (full single market membership, no EU budget, contributions) and eat it (not be bound by the free movement of people, soft border between NI and the Republic of Ireland). We can't. Anyone who thinks otherwise probably believed the slogan on the bus.

    Our economy needs immigration. Let's have a grown up debate on that, and stop pandering to the small minded, little Englanders whose culture is so fragile it is threatened by hearing other languages in Morrisons.

  • I think one way this could happen is with the development of a cross-party consensus. And a cross-party committee negotiating (confronting the cluster fuck) may be one way of getting there.

  • This thread is interesting;

    https://twitter.com/simontilford/status/875286007675047936

    But I can't see a cross party initiative working right now. The Tories are clinging to power, Labour wants to gain power, so I can't see how you can reconcile that whilst cooperating.

  • There's a push for it from all parties. Needs momentum (the thing, not the org).

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/13/brexit-negotiations-cross-party-support-jeremy-corbyn

  • Talk is cheap.

  • Agreed. But it's better than what he had a couple of weeks ago

  • I cannot see a consensus emerging, whilst the Tories have a (slightly chastened) kipper fringe that is virulently against the ECJ.
    How can you have any deal, when they refuse to agree to be bound by the EU's court of arbitration?
    Simple, but unlikely, solution would be for a new Tory leader to face down/expel this kipper tendency. Unfortunately we are probably more likely to see a compromise leader emerge who just follows the John Major path of drift.

  • Labour is still in deep denial as well, thinking they can get a custom made deal.

    No darlings, and some deals endanger the peace in NI. EEA / EFTA won't, but hey, that means you lose the Euro clearings for nothing.

    Maybe the libdems will help with staying in the EEA / EFTA though?

    And all this for... what exactly? Either a super high risk gamble that "freedom" by going it completely alone nearly pays off (as the UK is going to spend 10-20 years making friends with nothing in return, it doesn't look good if you bail out like this....) so you can have your socialist republic/glorious isolation/whatever custom brexit you imagine.

    OR looking like a tit and getting a worse deal anyway and having to pipe down.

  • Fucking remoaners

    Theresa has proven she is strong and stable, the country believe she is strong and stable and the election has given her a clear mandate to proceed with hard brexit.

    (occasionally i wonder if she actually still believes in remain and her fucking up the election and everything else is her way of entirely sabotaging brexit -but then i remember she appears to have no fucking spine or courage of her convictions)

  • News this morning that the UK government (yes, me too) have agreed to the EU's request/demand that talks conclude on the rights of citizens and the budget contributions before talks on a trade deal start.

    For the hard of understanding, that means May has u-turned. Again.

    Meanwhile her negotiating skills are so good she can't get a deal with a small regional party in her own country concluded.

  • God forbid anyone thinks of the greater good of the country above their petty self-interest.

  • A post-election poll by YouGov found that 51% would prefer Brexit to be negotiated by a cross-party team.

    51%. The will of the people!!!1!!11!

  • For the hard of understanding, that means May has u-turned. Again.

    To be fair, she doesn't u-turn as much as wobble on the spot like a spinning top that is about to collapse.

  • "My gyroscopic effect is the basis of a strong and stable government."

  • BBCR5 John Pienaar this morning.
    Keir Starmer spoke a lot sense about the practical difficulties of any form of brexhit.
    Those Torykippers clinging to withdrawal from the ECJ, will have to explain how the UK can negotiate any trade deal with the EU that ignores their ultimate court of arbitration.

  • Labour keep talking about leaving the EU as well. Everybody seems completely blind to the economic damage.

    But yeah no EJC, no trade.

  • Yup, was disappointed to see Corbyn just referring to "tariff free" trade when that's quite a low goal. I don't think he really gets it, which is a shame / problem

  • I'm a bit disappointed Labour is going along with the disinformation...so many people warn about economic damage from all walks of politics/life... :(

    A Labour gov and just staying in the EU and finally cleaning up all the social issues in the UK would be a massive win. I think. Imagine... redistribution, investment in education, in social policies...in coming together as we all needs jobs or something else meaningful, education, feeling a little like a society.

    OK, you can't renationalise the trains easily (I think that's tricky under current EU law) but it's far less risky than leaving AND taking a huge economic hit but having to really invest in the UK and it's people... cos the damage is deep. Why take that economic risk :(

  • https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hm-treasury-analysis-the-long-term-economic-impact-of-eu-membership-and-the-alternatives

    have at it... the blurb may, or may not be inflation adjusted [not clear from summary and the full thing is 208 pages] but in 15 years even with EEA membership on average everyone is worse off by £2300 a year.

  • but mah sovereignty

  • "The negative impact on GDP would also result in substantially weaker tax receipts, significantly outweighing any potential gain from reduced financial contributions to the EU. After 15 years, even with savings from reduced contributions to the EU, receipts would be £20 billion a year lower"

    also best case scenario

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EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

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