General Election June 2017

Any uk immigrants living abroad still waiting for postal vote? Sent my forms away 3 weeks ago still waiting?

That depends 100% on Labour

The libdems have said they will not form a coalition with labour (or the Tories).

However, these things have a way of changing once voting is done.

Just thought I'd scan some of the papers to see how they reported the debate. The Sun was just straight up watching something else based on their analysis.
Shame as many people who would have been swayed by Corbs blatantly won't have watched it and will believe it was 90mins of everyone else queuing up to slam him as a terrorist sympathiser.

However, these things have a way of changing once voting is done.

I would suggest that Labours stance is an attempt to shore up their vote against losses by tactical voting/people voting for the Greens because they'd go into coalition with Labour.

As you say, once the vote is in, and if it becomes apparent that a coalition is on the cards then I'd expect that to change. Labour+UKIP, say.

The Lib Dem grandees have all said publicly that there is a huge similarity between Lib Dem policy and Labour. Vince Cable and a few others have even been telling people to vote Labour in some places since just after the election was called.

Lib Dems have also stood down in multiple seats to give other candidates a clear run at the Tories.

If we're judging on deeds rather than words, the Lib Dems have been campaigning for a progressive coalition from the outset. Whereas Labour have 100% been fighting one.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/coalition

Tim Farron has ruled out doing any coalition deals with Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn after the election.

I would suggest that Labours stance is an attempt to shore up their vote against losses by tactical voting/people voting for the Greens because they'd go into coalition with Labour.

Agreed. Not my preferred strategy, but it makes sense if you're coming at it from that perspective. And it's not unique to them.

Lib Dem behaviour

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/listen-vince-cable-urges-lib-dem-voters-to-back-labour-mp/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/08/revealed-sir-vince-cable-urges-lib-dem-supporters-back-labour/

Labour behaviour

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/09/labour-expels-south-west-surrey-members-attempt-unseat-jeremy-hunt

I'll judge them on their actions, and of course no-one says "vote for us and we'll capitulate!", but it's clear who is willing to work with others and who isn't.

Labour behaviour looks like strong and stable leadership to me. /trollface

I get where you're coming from. Labour and Lib Dems are in very different positions though, so I'd expect different behaviour at this point, regardless of eventual willingness to coalesce.
(Pretty sure that's incorrect use of the word, but I like it)

Fair enough. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I was just responding to your "100% labour" claim.

One of the things I've learned working on data and recommendations for https://www.tactical2017.com is that there are some seats in which the Lib Dems have always been the alternative to the Tories, and that even during the Lib Dem collapse of 2015 Labour were totally unable to make any significant gain in those seats. You can see in some South West seats that Lib Dems lose 18,000+ votes, and yet Labour only gain 2,000 or so.

There are people who vote Lib Dem who will never vote Labour.

It would be suicide for the Lib Dems to make a proclamation on day one that they would enter a Labour coalition. Because where the Lib Dem vote is strongest, it's also where sentiment against Labour is low.

Every party has to say that they won't do a coalition.

But in the actions of those parties, it's clear that Lib Dems would.

I re-state the fairly obvious though... Labour have been expelling members who work with others against the Tories. If a coalition is on the cards (and it's way too soon to seriously suggest that) then it is Labour who really need to reflect on whether they are able to form a coalition.

And that is crazy, because frankly... without SNP and Lib Dems, Labour will not have the numbers to get to Downing Street outside of a coalition. Labour have the most to lose here.

Of course it is. They are the only other genuine national party, if they started standing candidates down in certain constituencies then the Tories and their many, many allies in the media would have a field day. They have to be seen to be a national party, the LibDems and the Greens don't.

National in the United Kingdom appears to have been reduced to England and Wales.

But then again... that's the Conservative definition of a national party too.

It's bloody sad that Labour have fallen so far.

Actually it is incredible they have risen so far in the last few weeks.

And I know they had fallen to a very low place anyway, but the resurgence is impressive

I read somewhere recently that Labour would need 45% of the vote in order to win the election. Can't remember where sadly so I can't provide a reference.

A reduced conservative majority is a win in my book.

Fuck the Lib Dems, vote for Labour.

Farron said he won't go into coalition with Theresa May, but you can guarantee that he'll say "the Conservatives are the largest party in parliament, so give us a few ministerial seats and we'll back PM Boris/Amber etc now Theresa has stepped down".

Any uk immigrants living abroad

I think you'll find you're referred to as expatriates.

And I know they had fallen to a very low place anyway, but the resurgence is impressive

Hatred of the Tories is a very motivating thing recently.

Fuck the Lib Dems, vote for Labour.

That's crazy talk.

If you took the few Lib Dem seats out there, and those that they could take from the Tories... and gave them to the Tories (because honestly, none of those seats are going Labour), then regardless of Labour performance Tories get in.

The only hope is a tactical one, a progressive one. That the Tories are challenged in every seat by the party most likely to win that seat.

The right have united, UKIP have given their weight to the Tories. DUP will always be Tories under another banner.

The social liberal left don't have long to unite fully.

Step one: Get power
Step two: Argue about the division of power

The Tories always did that right... do you recall how incredibly quickly they unified after the referendum to just keep power and be united?

The social liberal left has always fucked this up. We are fractured, and need to realise that as a single force we are more numerous than the right. We tend to argue the minutiae of how to divide power before we even possess it.

Talk of coalition can wait... get power first.

Yes. But if everyone voted for what they do want instead of against what they don't politics would be more representative. I know it's a product of fptp but, like negative campaigning, tactical voting is anti democratic.

Tim Farron showed himself to be a negative campaigner last night, more concerned about slagging off JC and TM than promoting his own policies. He's also the [arguable] homophobe leader of a party that colluded with the Tories.

So the lib dems can go ahead and hop right into the sea for now and the foreseeable future and take their middle class guilt with them.

^Hair shirt wearing Grauniad reader

Agreed :)

Yes. But if everyone voted for what they do want instead of against what they don't politics would be more representative. I know it's a product of fptp but, like negative campaigning, tactical voting is anti democratic.

Agreed.

But it's more democratic then FPTP. Which is super fucked-up.

The only reasonable democracy is one where every vote is represented in Westminster, i.e. full proportional representation.

80% of OECD countries have that, only huge notable exceptions are UK and US... look which ones have become more divisive.

The path to PR:

1. Tactical voting: The voters vote against someone, without consent of the parties
   
2. Progressive alliances: The parties work together against someone
   
3. Progressive coalitions: Parties embrace coalitions and work to achieve them
   
4. Electoral transformation: PR introduced to preserve strengths of coalitions
   
   

The first is the only one we can fully be involved in, and it's so important right now to be so to stop the Tories.

No other party has the numbers to stop them, but tactical voting can weaken them enough to slow them down significantly. And if there is enough of a swing, tactical voting could deliver a non-Tory coalition.