Fox hunting and other country matters

Also worth pointing out that the reality of fox hunting isn't just the dogs tearing foxes apart in a kill, but this sort of thing:
https://www.league.org.uk/news/fox-cubs-thrown-alive-to-hunting-hounds
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/foxes-filmed-being-kept-in-captivity-to-be-used-in-illegal-hunts-10315129.html

dogs killing animals is a fairly natural thing

True. But when they are trained, bred and goaded to carry out killing by us.. It's one of those things we'll look back and think.

Cognitive Dissonance

You raised a good point.

I just found a survey of 746 farmers online and it said that over 75% of farmers reported no livestock losses to foxes and the overall lamb mortality rate from badgers was about 1%. Of all reported lamb deaths, 5% were due to fox predation and 50% due to starvation or disease.

Anyway, I'm much more bothered by the nearly 4,000 foxhounds that are reportedly euthanized by hunts every year. That's before we get on to the subject of feeding the foxhound puppies live fox cubs to encourage their prey drive. The whole thing is just fucked.

Shoot a fox by all means, don't breed thousands of dogs in dodgy conditions just to tear a fox apart while you sip a brandy.

Fox hunting and other country matters?
Fox hunting is one thing, a hideous example of feudal life and an inhumane sport.
What are the other country matters you want discuss, botany? rural payments? rights of way? ash dieback?
Or are you just just trolling?

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I think the ban was probably, ultimately the right decision, but the whole campaign against it made me really uncomfortable. It seemed to be mostly misdirected class warfare and appeals against animal cruelty by people who are quite happy eating battery-farmed chicken. Essentially it was "Look at those weirdo, posh, country cunts! Look at their stupid clothes. They're not like us are they? Let's ban that thing they like doing!"

I never understood the efficiency argument either. If you accept that foxes numbers need to be controlled and people are doing it at their own expense, why would you care if it's inefficient? If I want to spend my free time on my neighbourhood streets in a stupid hat picking up litter with a toothpick, I'm still contributing to making the place cleaner at no expense to anyone else.

That said, there was too much nasty stuff happening for it to continue. If it was genuinely just an odd form of pest control I wouldn't have a problem with it. But breeding extra foxes to make sure there's something to chase is fucked up.

I grew up in Cheshire and teenage years were the 80's/90's, right around the big Hunt Sab times.

I wasn't one but kinda looked like one. The amount of shit I got and pub's I got refused entry into was bizarre.

It really kicked off when Mike Hill got killed by a Huntsman.

Essentially it was "Look at those weirdo, posh, country cunts! Look at their stupid clothes. They're not like us are they? Let's ban that thing they like doing!"

Lots of people are incredibly passionate about animal welfare. The type who take a sensible and proportionate view to the subject as a whole, which in turn informs how they live and consume.

I totally get those people having strong feelings on the subject. My gut is that for most other people there is a huge amount of class prejudice involved.

My view has always been fairly fixed since we had to debate it at school;

1. I don't care that much, and
   
2. Hunt supporters should grow a pair and admit they enjoy it and don't give a fuck - rather than putting forward spurious arguments that a 12yo can poke holes though.
   
   

Sort of reminds me of

The ban was political strategy (and the Blair Govt) at its very best. I'm sure will be a lobbyists case study for years to come.

.

Lots of people are incredibly passionate about animal welfare. The type who take a sensible and proportionate view to the subject as a whole, which in turn informs how they live and consume

Sure, and I consider myself one of them. But the idea that the majority of Brits have a deep, ideological passion for animal welfare is not really borne out by our shopping habits.

Hunt supporters should grow a pair and admit they enjoy it

I've never worked out how this would affect the debate one way or the other.

It seemed to be mostly misdirected class warfare and appeals against animal cruelty by people who are quite happy eating battery-farmed chicken.

But the idea that the majority of Brits have a deep, ideological passion for animal welfare is not really borne out by our shopping habits.

Spot on.

No-one is pro animal abuse. but cognitive dissonance is very real.

We have all been taught that from a young age that simultaneously - we should care for an animal's welfare - at the same time its ok to pay people to mutilate their bodies for our benefit.

How is that not going to breed a selfish, irrational and confused mass of people?

saw this thread and I loled deeply knowing the deep deep resevoir of willfully contrary passive aggressive trolling from which it sprung, to which I fell upon my knees and uttered my healing prayer:

He maketh me to lie down in green, organic fair trade pastures unbespoilt by inorganic pesticides: he leadeth me beside the still waters away from some dullard's continual smugness and playing the wounded Henrietta at every opportunity, no matter the topic. He restoreth my soul free from the shrill panty wetting who is essentially conflicted by his own muddled thinking: he leadeth me in the paths away from engaging with that intractable self-righteousness for his own name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the faux moral outrage and the straw man argument, In the ignore button we trust, we shall fear no weavils; thy serenity and thy abundance of infinitely more interesting topics and people they comfort me. Thou preparest a politically neutral table of unpretentious and sincerely prepared bicycle-orientated goodies before me even in the undesirable presence of mine endlessly tiresome and pathetic enemies: thou anointest my head with cold pressed hemp oil; my cup runneth over with non-gluten free beer. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life away from boring, intellectually stunted and hapless needy cunts: and I will dwell in the house of the Lufguss for ever and ever, amen.

+Rep for dayz.

rep

Wordsmithery, Ube the best :)

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I've never worked out how this would affect the debate one way or the other.

Because you wouldn't have to waste time entertaining the various other pro-hunt arguments. We could just have a simple honest debate about whether the pleasure and economic benefit derived by a few outweighs the negative impact on foxes, horses and the countryside.

Fucking troll thread. If you need to ask the question, you're as much a cunt as the twats on the horses.

What a terrible inconvenience for you. If only there was some way you could avoid reading it and replying to it.

Fuck me, you are the Katie Hopkins of lfgss.

I think Hopkins might be becoming the new 'Hitler' for godwin's law.

Are we really discussing if it's okay to rip animals apart with dogs?

No, I think we're more discussing people's different reactions to the issues, different experiences, and the reasons behind them. The country has already decided the act itself of killing a fox in that way is not ok, I think that aspect of the discussion is settled.

Great stuff guys!

Fox hunting and other country matters?

Fox hunting is one thing, a hideous example of feudal life and an inhumane sport.
What are the other country matters you want discuss, botany? rural payments? rights of way? ash dieback?
Or are you just just trolling?

First, 'country matters' is one of the oldest jokes in the language. I mainly posted this to stop the election thread getting derailed, but knew I would get called a cunt for it.

I think the divisions between people in britain are thrown into relief by issues like these, class and politics are heavily bound up in hunting, which is why it came up in the election thread. I'm not, have have not at any point, tried to change anyone's mind on whether it's wrong to tear a fox apart with dogs. I'm more interested in the ways we make judgements of others based on pre-concieved notions. And I'll admit I've been guilty of that myself.

Best post eva

He maketh me to lie down in green, organic fair trade pastures unbespoilt by inorganic pesticides: he leadeth me beside the still waters away from some dullard's continual smugness and playing the wounded Henrietta at every opportunity, no matter the topic. He restoreth my soul free from the shrill panty wetting who is essentially conflicted by his own muddled thinking: he leadeth me in the paths away from engaging with that intractable self-righteousness for his own name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the faux moral outrage and the straw man argument, In the ignore button we trust, we shall fear no weavils; thy serenity and thy abundance of infinitely more interesting topics and people they comfort me. Thou preparest a politically neutral table of unpretentious and sincerely prepared bicycle-orientated goodies before me even in the undesirable presence of mine endlessly tiresome and pathetic enemies: thou anointest my head with cold pressed hemp oil; my cup runneth over with non-gluten free beer. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life away from boring, intellectually stunted and hapless needy cunts: and I will dwell in the house of the Lufguss for ever and ever, amen.

Parklife.

This is funny an all but honestly I don't mean to troll anyone. From initial reactions I thought this thread would just die a death and we could all move on.

I grew up in Cheshire and teenage years were the 80's/90's, right around the big Hunt Sab times.

Whereabouts? I did too, and they used to come tearing around the fields near us.

Because you wouldn't have to waste time entertaining the various other pro-hunt arguments. We could just have a simple honest debate about whether the pleasure and economic benefit derived by a few outweighs the negative impact on foxes, horses and the countryside.

That doesn't make any sense. Whether or not people enjoy it (which I assume they did, because they weren't forced to do it) you still have to entertain the economic, environmental and social pro-hunting arguments. If you could prove that the only benefit was enjoyment that would totally change the debate but, as you said, there are other arguments.

There seemed to be a strange mentality of "you enjoy something I find abhorrent, so it should be banned" as if the enjoyment itself was deplorable and ignoring the fact that we all enjoy things that result in animal suffering.