Should Scotland be an independent country?

Theresa May...

"The tunnel vision that the SNP has shown today is deeply regrettable. It sets Scotland on a course for more uncertainty and division, creating huge uncertainty," the PM said.

"Instead of playing politics with the future of our country the Scottish government should focus on delivering good government and public services for the people of Scotland. Politics is not a game."

Given the current Brexit scenario brought about by the Conservative government, the hypocrisy of this statement is so unbelievable this could be a Daily Mash article..

I think Scotland should vote for their independence and I'd sincerely wish them luck.

all my no friends are 100% yes now .....

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/03/england-big-loser-brexit-170312092648577.html

Seeing as we can't really rely on the UK media I'm looking further afield for opinion.

give em whisky
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-38737183

For the last two years I've been a director of a Scottish company, running half of the operations in England and spending most of my time here in Leeds, but spending one week in eight in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Most of my holidays for many years have been in Scotland or Ireland. I'm English born with an English accent and Irish parentage. I have never once experienced anti-English prejudice in Scotland or Ireland. I have witnessed hundreds of expressions of casual racism towards Scots and Irish by English people. There is much less anti-English feeling in Scotland than vice versa, and it constantly astonishes me that there isn't more resentment of the English in Scotland.

word!

I am just tired of neverendums. Obviously the U.K governement needs help in fixing the union instead the SNP are intent on wrecking it. Federalism is one option but case is never made.

You cant keep on asking the same question till you get the answer you want.

I am once again feeling why the fuck am I living in a country that seems hell bent on tearing itself apart. I cant wish any country well that led by fuckwits and that goes for both sides of the boarder, after all it we the people who put them there. You may have guessed I am not that happy about all of this and the u.k governments arrogance (and the arrogance and complancancy of the english) that has allowed this predictable situation to arise in the first place. When you have a large chunk of your country wanting to break away for the second time in a few years you know things are not going well.

If scotland goes and it might it will do nothing to heal divisions. Those divisions will get deeper and I wont want to stick around to see what happens. I'll go ride my bike somewhere else (not scotland either) as the country I was born in would not exist anymore. So thanks sturgeon I am starting to feel homeless again.

Sorry to hear you're feeling like this.

Federalism option (Devo Max or Full Fiscal Autonomy) was never offered as the Edinburgh Agreement stipulated a binary in or out option. No middle ground.

It's not really the same question. There has been a material change in the status quo and as a result the SNP have a mandate to reexamine the question.

I also understand that you might not like fuckwits but fuckwittery in politics is a very grey area. I'm sorry you won't wish us in the U.K well as we're all being governed by fuckwits.

So why are you feeling homeless?

I've just been looking at 3 year old posts, EB and Übergrü doing their thing.

What did I miss?

Sometimes I think before Scotchland ever sorts this shit out The Peoples' Republic of London will be Independent of TorygraphLand. I will raise a glass if either manage it.

I am drunk btw

Massive tax on commuters from outside the M25. Would sort out transport hell in the south east in a jiffy, and stimulate some workplaces* to relocate outside the megatropolis.

*mainly PR

I guess our contradictory accounts prove you can't make generalisations about the behaviour of people based on your own personal experience.

#confirmationbias

You cant keep on asking the same question till you get the answer you want.

The SNP were quite clear that a brexit scenario against the wishes of the Scottish electorate would trigger another referendum.

A referendum in the event of Scotland being taken out of Europe against their will was in the SNP manifesto. They were elected on the back of that. TBH I don't even think Sturgeon wanted a referendum at this point but she has been backed into a corner by May's (unelected) government.

Yeah, mi7rennie's probably nailed it.

have family in scotland. it seems that this is the only hing SNP are really concerned with. Scotland has other big issues which they need to sort.

Hopefully if Brexit taught us anything is that some of the unknowns really need to be thought through (like those things anthonyj mentioned above) in order to allow people to make a fully informed decision.

nothing against scottish independence, however it shouldnt be purely based on emotion.

I just worry that it is yet again a referendum based around hear say and a solid bit of propaganda.

I have lived in London for 6 years and all my friends from home in Glasgow have a level of bitterness towards England as they feel undervalued in their political decisions.

I know it's not the best argument but Scotland (and I know London) didn't vote for the torys or brexit and I think a lot of people at home feel this is an opportunity to take control and have their opinions politically mean something... but they aren't looking at the bigger picture.

I think if all the facts were really laid on the table it would be seen as a dodgy call... but as with brexit... all the SNP need to do is show the facts they want. Scary times!

Devolution is always going to be a good thing, IMO. Centralised power over decision-making never empowers those who lack influence or control over their destiny.

We have nothing to fear. We need the existence of government to stop being an excuse for a few indivduals to get on the 'revolving door' gravy-train. We need to hold politicians to account, not just go along bloody blindly with a joke 'democracy' where elected oligarchs pretend they act in the interests of society not their own share options and tax-free wealth and dividends, pensions, publicly-funded private mortgage wealth and expenses fiddles.

I'm not sure SNP look much different to the self-interested ego-maniac borderline psychotic money grabbing careerists who pass for politicians in other parties.

No, I'm not still drunk.

All very valid and true, but it brings to the fore the perception that the SNP are the only party in the Scottish parliament and that an Independent country would be rules exclusively by them. It won't-we have proportional representation that makes achieving a majority mathematically very very unlikely and the current situation reflects a coalition between progressive forces in the SNP and Green Party, with even Labour for Independence supporting key motions. Post Indy I think the SNP will actually have to split and become something else.

I'm tapping out of this thread now to leave folk to whatever bias they like to indulge. Arguing on the internet > etc

I think if all the facts were really laid on the table

Surely this is the crux of the issue. What are the facts?

anthonyj summed up many of the key issues: post #1325

For the most part the "facts" are simply a list of unknowns. i.e. it is a fact that no one knows whether EU membership will be granted. Even on oil/gas reserves the only real fact is that there is disagreement on the value and that reserves will decrease over time. Devaluation of Sterling is probably the only certainty out there.

Centralised power over decision-making never empowers those who lack influence or control over their destiny.

I never thought of you as a conservative, Skully.

Having not been around during the vote, I don't really know the nature of the campaign. But one thing I did want to chuck my 2p in on is the idea that pensioners would worry about their pension security...
... anyone without a state, civil service, or final salary pension runs the risk of serious real loss through Sterling's devaluation - and it isn't a stretch to say that is highly likely in the event of Scottxit (obvs people with the foresight to hedge will be up). An increase in the cost of living is also likely. So to me that sounds like a perfectly legitimate personal concern over independence.

the perception that the SNP are the only party in the Scottish parliament and that an Independent country would be rules exclusively by them.

This is definitely an important point people seem to miss. In the short term you would expect them to be dominant, but over time it would shift. Particularly as I would assume, they have a wider political spread at the moment due to the aim of independence than they otherwise might.

I never thought of you as a conservative, Skully.

I never considered devolutionary politics as being anything other than a liberal affair. Conservatism has displayed a strong desire over the last 40 years to centralize, 'maintain the Union', meanwhile reducing the economic power base away from publically owned assets towards the hands of the city gamblers. New Labour did do some devolutionary acts, but they didn't reverse the denationalisation and deregulation as they got duped into thinking it was a Good Thing.

I think it's good to point out that SNP won't necessarily maintain dominance post-independence. Thanks @übe®

Start here and follow up with all of the references.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglophobia#cite_note-3

What currency?

Here are some ideas from Common Space.
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8920/explained-9-new-independent-scotland-currency-options-laid-out-new-report

Common space is one of the many digital news outlets created around IR1 to enable news and views outside the control of the main media channels.

As an Englishman who's lived in Edinburgh for 8 years (with a few years break back in London), I've rarely encountered anglophobia outside of football. In that context, I think a lot of the issue surrounds the insufferable "two world wars and one world cup"/ this time we'll do it media coverage...

Lulz.

Fo you evn read ur own citations bro?

The study goes on to say (of the English living in Scotland): "Few of the English (only 16 percent) see conflict between Scots and English as even 'fairly serious'."

Aside from that, you're citing a handful of sensational newspaper articles over a ten year period and an observation made by George Orwell in 1945. Seriously, come out from behind the stereotypes in Trainspotting and the English edition of the Sun.

Watertight.