In the news

double post.

fucking fucker fuck

Was just about to post that, WHAT IS THIS FUCKERY UK COURT SYSTEM!

The UK court system either works really well or really fucking badly. Rarely inbetween.

One example of it working well was Rolf Harris being sent down based entirely on the credibility of his victims under cross examination with no other evidence. The Ched Evans trial is an example of how badly it can go wrong.

Fair enough. It's not easy to get things perfect all the time, but to allow character evidence by exes in a time where slut shaming (of men/women) is still common baffles me.

The comments by some people on social media make you think she's some kind of wizard and he had no control over what he did: Unlike her he can remember everything.

Yeah, its really shaky ground for sure.

The appeal judges must have thought that extraordinary circumstances required this testimony to be heard. I can't imagine what those circumstances were though.

I agree that the acquittal seems horrifying but it does make we wonder exactly why the appeal was successful. Its rare that a panel of judges gets things totally wrong, more common that they are bound to apply the law and left with no choice but to acquit.

Sex with somebody who was so drunk she was unaware that she had sex is rape whichever way you colour it.

It's difficult to prove rape.

So.most cases don't even go to court. Those that do, often don't lead to a convinction.

I am ok with accepting a non guilty verdict and have ok faith in the justice system but the how seems (as we are not privy to all details) dodgy.

Well he's got his life back, she's hounded by his supporters. Is he going to give her back or accept some semblance of responsibility?

From what I gather, it seems the testimony from ex's was someone who'd slept with her a week or two before and the same a week or two after. The testimony was viewed as exceptional as her behaviour with the other two was somehow the same as with Evans (no idea in what way), the suggestion was that as the other two were consensual and the behaviour with Evans was the same then the implication was that it was consensual.

Not entirely convinced by the argument but it may have been more nuanced (or it may have just been an excuse to bring in more people who'd slept with her and damage her reputation).

From what I've read (and I have been vaguely following the case) this new witness gave evidence that she directed him to certain sexual positions (as Evans said she did on the night in question) and said certain phrases during sex that tallied with what Ched Evans said happened in the hotel room between him and her.
This cast doubt on her being too drunk to consent or not being able to give consent.
The same witness testified that the alleged victim had "blackouts" and couldn't remember what had happened between them the night before although not being too drunk to consent. This cast doubt on her credibility of saying she didn't give consent on the night in question.
This new witness said he didn't come forward because of the money being offered, hadn't been offered the money/didn't know about it and wouldn't take it anyway. He said he had far more to lose by coming forward and giving this evidence and could earn more than the £50k reward being offered in a year. (A court order bans him being identified but before coming to court he wouldn't have known that was 100% going to happen.)
Clearly the 5 women and 7 men on jury believed this witness and Evans' account. They took 2 hrs to return verdict which suggests it was quite a simple decision for them.

I think public opinion, and resulting pressure groups, are essential to adressing problems in our justice system such as the low conviction rate for rape cases. I think it's damaging to all sides though when a case like this is played out on twitter etc, and in statements from celebrities with no knowledge of the case. How does anyone on here, or anywhere else, know what happened with Ched Evans? the whole thing muddies the waters.

It really was a murky and miserable case.

So, he's not a rapist but wow, he was (maybe still is) a horrible man in 2011.

he's not without doubt a rapist

no?

the whole thong muddies the waters.

Thongs tend to make it a bit clearer IMHO

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/ is a really good read around this case

Nice, thanks :)

Having sat through a lot of court cases, it's really very difficult to give an opinion without having seen the witnesses on the stand.

Two hours for a jury to clear someone is pretty quick.

I will say I think Evans is a fucking scumbag though.

Evans is a nasty piece of work.

But the whole does-consent-count-in-a-blackout thing is massively difficult.

Say, hypothetically, you ended up in bed with someone after you drunkenly told them (truthfully) that you were in love with them, they asked you to stay with them, and this after you pretty explicitly said you didn't want to stay if they weren't going to want you to be there in the morning. "Why wouldn't I want you to be there in the morning?" they might hypothetically have said - and then in the morning it transpires they don't remember much and don't want you to be there and half suspect you've taken advantage of them, because paranoia.

I think some people would say that because of the booze involved it's automatically rape but that doesn't seem like an accurate description of proceedings at all to me, in this hypothetical. Which is completely made up and bears no relation to any persons living or dead.

That front page headline!! Beyond parody.

17 pt poll lead is depressing and seemingly a consequence of ramping up the xenophobia. This year has been instructive. I really didn't think the public were this shit even though i cycle every day.

Tx good read. Seems it's not so worrying as I thought that two witnesses were called to comment on her sex life.

Does seem very strange that a 'rape victim' would be sexually active again 2 weeks after the alleged attack

The thing about rape cases is that they are quite often (s)he said vs (s)he said. Its always going to be hard to get the right outcome with that.

The hypothetical situation you raise is interesting. I mean, hands up who here hasn't had sex with somebody when both of you are really pissed? Hands up who hasn't done something they regret in the morning when pissed? The line between drunken consenting sex between adults and rape is very, very thin indeed. As it should be I guess.

She didn't bring the complaint, or whatever the technical term is.

Also, that kind of opinion can fuck right off.

How long do you think is "proper"? How long would not cast doubt, for you? How the fuck can you know?

She didn't bring the complaint, or whatever the technical term is.

To quote that secret barrister article, it was "he said vs she can't remember. "

Also, that kind of opinion can fuck right off.

^ This.

I would bet if you asked 100 rape victims the question 'after being raped, how long was it before you had sex?'

Not one would say '2 weeks'