EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

LOL at the Essex brexit voter I was talking to the other night who owns a second home in Bulgaria.

brodoueven?

a second home in Bulgaria.
brodoueven?

Brodoueven is one of the nicest places to visit in summer

LOLage.

Thought should be "was"

Fucking brexit wankers.

Forruns, coming over here, not stealing my high-paying job, so I can still afford a fucking holiday house in their country but I don't want those cunts over here in 'mine'.

Exports of what?

the state of this fucking country...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/10/pregnant-women-could-be-forced-to-show-their-passportsat-hospita/

"St George’s University Hospitals Foundation trust said it had fallen victim to “organised illegal activity” which has seen con men making money by charging women from Nigeria to have babies on the NHS."

So there SEEMS to be a fraud situation going on. I am not saying this is the best way to tackle it, (what about some help with good maternal care in Nigeria if people are paying to give birth here, things can't be great) but it doesn't seem to come out of nothing.

The Home Office though has shown themselves to be assholes in the past...

Seems fair enough, especially for pre-booked or where there is an obvious foreseeable need to access healthcare.

Erm, stuff. The best of British innovation and design. Our manufacturing capability is famous throughout the world and a byword for quality.

Failing that, jam and marmalade https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/782860452325982208

I largely agree.

For pre-booked anything, why wouldn't it be necessary to present your identity... you already need to identify yourself so that they have your medical records available for whatever treatment.

This is where the lack of an identity card hurts us. This is where it makes eminent sense.

But... without an identity card, this will be hard to enforce as it isn't required that everyone has a passport.

Where this breaks down is A&E. Nothing in A&E should ever require an identity check. That is infeasible and inhumane.

.

There are lots of people who use A&E as a drop in centre for non-emergency care. A fee might push people with a bit of a cold to lower cost alternatives like community health centres.

uh .. https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/overview

There are lots of people who use A&E as a drop in centre for non-emergency care. A fee might push people with a bit of a cold to lower cost alternatives like community health centres.

WTF.

I agree to identity for non-emergency to ensure medical records are present, and that services aren't being abused.

But... emergency is emergency. There is never a scenario that I would agree to that would deny or even delay any emergency treatment due to a request for identity, payment, or anything. If someone is in need, if it's an emergency, then that's the priority... nothing else.

Fuck the fascist extension and introduction of charges in A&E on the back of this racist culture that seems to exist at the moment.

Sure we can have a more efficient and better health system, but A&E... keep the idealogy a long way from that.

You can easily do that filter at initial assessment. Emergency, go through there and get treated. Non-emergency go down there and show some id

No.

It's subjective, bureaucratic, and will distract A&E resources towards paper pushing penny pinching whilst those that are in need with real emergencies wait because some % of staff are now fucking around with paperwork.

Christ you are heartless and cold.

If anyone wants to know where the line is on the NHS... it's A&E.

"Our manufacturing capability is famous throughout the world and a byword for quality."

What is this, Germany? ;)

Joking aside, it's become hard to get UK made things.
Lava Lamps (mathmos)
King Dick tools
Numatic cleaners (henry!)
Cars (but the companies are not UK owned)
Errr....

Seriously?

There is already an initial assessment to see if you are an emergency or not. This is done by a triage nurse almost on the door. All I am saying is that if she thinks you can then sit in reception for the next five hours then someone from hospital admin has time to check your id and see if you get free treatment or a bill. I'm not suggesting denial of care or payment ahead of delivery.

Media as debate setter and the impact it may have had on the referendum: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/10/broadcasters-were-biased-during-eu-referendum-campaign-not-way-you-think

Conclusion: Tory campaign was given media attention to the detriment of Labour and other centre-left campaigns. This set the tone and arguments for the debate which made it difficult to get to traditional Labour supporters.

If it's a non-emergency (I dated an A&E Dr once. They had people come in for papercuts, ffs) and they are waiting, wouldn't it make more sense for them to earn their keep instead?

Maybe help out with the cleaning, distributing food trolleys, or possibly perform anaesthesia.

Yes seriously.

A&E... every pair of hands should be dedicated towards giving the people that need urgent treatment the treatment they need.

A nurse triaging is a question of prioritisation... are you more in need than the next person, should you go direct to the front of the queue?

That's all. Just a task to get the limited resources to those most in need.

It can be done today by a single person, the nurse, with a high throughput even during large scale events, and it can even be scaled up by adding other nurses who work on the same criteria.

There's no other work involved, no "file to check for identity" no "manage payment for the low priority people"... hell, no payment system at all. It's the smallest possible intervention to ensure that those in need get help first.

Don't mess with that. Not unless you want to increase staffing accordingly and ring-fence A&E resources so that they continue to be 100% dedicated to getting those in need help first.

I am serious. Let there be no delay in A&E for those in need, and if you want to distract the triage nurse, you have introduced delay.

@mrak i think it's less about outright bias, the suggestion of which can get a bit tinfoil hatty at times, and more an issue of shitty, cowardly journalistic management and an unwillingness to piss off the tory party.

The first step would be to make GPs much more helpful and easier to use.

I used to work in public health and it certainly was the case in the early 00s that people tended to use A&E for non emergency purposes if they had a gripe with their local GP service.

We're still pretty big in specialist engineering, areas like aerospace, F1, etc

I'm not, nor is the article (despite it being in the headline), claiming bias.

It was pretty shitty reporting though. I don't know if you can measure these things, but at sub-2% swing the impact could have been profound.

In Belfast where I am you used to be able to get a GP appointment the same week...now it's more like 2 weeks. That leaves the morning walk-ins which are only for "severe cases", you get a whole 5 mins and only until 10.30.

The pharmacy isn't open in the evening either. No doubt some people are taking the piss, but not everyone is capable of using digital services etc. And they shut the NHS helpline as well some time ago. Then they shut one of the A&Es so the one that's left is very busy and can't meet it's 4 hour helplines.

TL:DR intentional dismantling of health service won't help. What is the solution? No doubt other countries that have struggled longer with this may have some ideas/data we can use.