Labour Leadership 2016

Told the truth you mean?

I don't know, I didn't see the interview. But I'm assuming it doesn't look good to answer a big question like that with "I don't know", as it looks weak. I guess trying not to look weak, and come across as decisive and in control at all times, is difficult and results in a lot of bullshit. Corbyn does the polar opposite, and the result is a shambles of leadership. Maybe there's a middle ground.

Maybe there's a middle ground.

Wouldn't it be brilliant? And it doesn't seem that unlikely that someone exists who could be that person. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54

Got my email ballot through, very conflicted. My heart is with Corbyn, I don't see Smith as anymore electable to the bigoted unwashed 51.9%

bigoted unwashed 51.9%

You mean brexit voters? This kind of ignorant snobbery is what has alienated many from Labour.

ignorant snobbery

I prefer the 'Metropolitan Elite' slur, it makes me sound more intelligent than I am.

tough room.

Maybe one day you'll even learn to spell his name.

Can we burn him now?

Virgin challenges Jeremy Corbyn train footage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37167700

As far as I can tell the story seems to be: man gets on train. Can't find seat. Other unrelated travellers also unable to find seat. Man praises employees on train. 45 minutes in employees find seat for man. Super rich billionaire with vested interest tweets CCTV photos which do not disprove man's story, but claims they show him to be a liar.

Maybe I'm wrong.

From this and this I get the impression that what must have happened was that lots of seats were reserved from London, reservations that weren't taken up (lots of people who reserve seats seem to be content to just sit elsewhere when they realise the train isn't too full), and train staff only removed the reservation cards later, which was when they were able to show Corbyn to a seat. I'd expect him on principle not to sit in a seat marked 'reserved' at the time. Still maladroit to then release such a video, if my surmise is correct.

Super rich billionaire

A billionaire who's super rich? Whatever next?

Ha, no. I mean Corbyn's quote about winning over tory voters is in direct contradiction with the main argument of many Corbyn supporters, i.e that Corbyn's strength is that he does not pander to the centre ground, but sticks resolutely to his principles. I agree with his point that Labour needs to win back Tory voters. I don't think Momentum etc agree though. I don't really think he does either.

You seem to assume that the only place where potential Tory voters and Labour's appeal to them meet is the 'centre ground'. That obviously holds true for a lot of people, but there are plenty of Tory voters who believe that the Tories are the party for the poor and to whom the way of persuasion wouldn't be anywhere close to the centre ground. John Harris did a couple of very interesting pieces on that a while ago, as part of his 'anywhere but Westminster' series.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/series/anywhere-but-westminster

this government is on the brink of destroying the human rights act under the stewardship of that bimbling idiot liz truss, but yeah - seats on trains.

From this and this I get the impression that what must have happened was that lots of seats were reserved from London, reservations that weren't taken up (lots of people who reserve seats seem to be content to just sit elsewhere when they realise the train isn't too full), and train staff only removed the reservation cards later

Nope. Take a look at the first picture in this (11.07am):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37167700

He's walking past empty, unreserved seats - when they are reserved the cards are clearly visible.

Something doesn't add up here though because if there were empty, unreserved seats, how come other people were also sitting on the floor?

They were entryist sitters.

Private train company challenges version of events of man who wants to nationalise private train company.

Have these journalists ever got a train out of London? Since when did the fact over crowded trains exist need to be proven? Just get on a train.

2016 is off it's rocker.

Ah, I was making the lazy assumption that it was the same carriage both times.

Something doesn't add up here though because if there were empty, unreserved seats, how come other people were also sitting on the floor?

This is the explanation from his team (from your link):

Mr Corbyn's campaign team said: "When Jeremy boarded the train he was unable to find unreserved seats, so he sat with other passengers in the corridor who were also unable to find a seat.

"Later in the journey, seats became available after a family were upgraded to first class, and Jeremy and the team he was travelling with were offered the seats by a very helpful member of staff."

They released photos of other people sitting on the floor and comments from a fellow traveller who said the service was "very overcrowded".

Asked about the CCTV footage apparently showing Mr Corbyn walking past seats without "reserved" signs on them, the Labour leader's team said some of these seats had bags on them which appeared to belong to people who had gone to the toilet.

So, basically, Corbyn benefited from some people (who were already sitting down by the sound of it) 'upgrading' to first class. :)

A longer Guardian version with some more quotes:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/23/jeremy-corbyn-virgin-trains-disputes-claim-over-lack-of-seats

11.43am Corbyn takes a seat in coach H after staff directed passengers to use booked seats that had not been taken. A Corbyn source said the leader’s seats were provided after Virgin staff upgraded a family to first class to make space for him and Alvarez.

So train staff apparently first offered an upgrade to him, and when he refused that, offered one to other people, which meant that he could sit down. Very interesting.

What I said earlier about people not sitting in their actual reserved seats seems to be true, however:

Another woman, Keren Harrison, tweeted a photo of herself with Corbyn on the train, saying there was only a seat for him about 45 minutes into the three-hour trip “when staff started shuffling people around”. This process appeared to involve Virgin staff directing other passengers sitting in corridors to reserved seats which had not been occupied.

Not direct evidence, but whenever you get on a train there seem to be a lot of reserved seats that nobody sits in. It's very different in Germany--if people reserve seats, they're usually insistent on sitting in those precise seats, so that if someone else sits in them they usually shoo them away, even if the train's quite empty. (Personally, I don't like seat reservation, especially compulsory reservation as on the Eurostar.) Here, I always get the impression that people treat reservations as optional once they get on the train, which causes problems.

Since when did the fact overcrowded trains exist need to be proven?

It's people like you that cost us the Empire.

Indeed, so pretty poor choice by Jezza of issue on which to try to make political capital.

Oh my god it's not a cut and dry situation about who can sit where on a train and I don't know where to project my ideological purity any more!

I mean, it's a banal event elevated to the level of transcendence by the spin team and it has come crashing down because it's a fucking seat on the train and not a picket line. The whole thing is stupid.

I'm just going to leave this here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9979483/Sir-Richard-Branson-Margaret-Thatcher-changed-the-country-for-the-better.html

Also, I know I'm normally the one saying the media aren't as biased towards Corbyn as his supporters claim, but the BBC are going really big on this. I'd say unnecessarily so for what is ultimately a pretty parochial incident.

Richard Scott, Virgin Trains' Executive Director of Corporate Affairs worked at the Beeb for 14 years: he seems to have used that experience well today.

It has been counter-spun very adroitly. It was a stupid thing to spin in the first place. This is charisma politics, not actual choices about hard stuff politics. It's a joke.

Edit to add - every long-distance train I've taken in the UK has a proportion of seats reserved whose reservers don't show. Their tickets allow them to get another train without a reserved seat. So if the seat is empty and the ticket says it was reserved from a point you've already passed, it's fair game. This isn't rocket science to train travellers.