EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

And so many stats from my area showing more money is leaving than coming in.

So you're pissed off at the examples that @TW gave then. Good to have some clarification. Certainly the collossal net extraction of wealth by tax avoiding and profit hoarding corporations is terrible thing for this country economically. I'm pissed off about it too.

The retirement package being, earn as much as you can, send as much money as you can home and spend as little as you can in the UK. Then retire home and live a luxury life with said monies from the UK. This is common knowledge where I live and is spoken about quite openly.

Oh right. My brother in law is doing that right now. Of course he's working in the US and sending the money back here though. Does that make him more or less of a cunt?

If he's not inputting into the Anerican system and milking it, then yes. Just because he's a Brit doesn't make it right.

Know it's not quite the point you're making but Vodafone are actually pretty decent as far as that stuff goes. Declaring an interest, I work for VF, but I'd be honest about this sort of thing even if it meant nibbling the hand that fed me, but genuinely, they're pretty good.

They did pay very little corporation tax for the last few years, that's true. But one of the things about corporation tax is that if you can show that you've invested in the UK then you can take that investment amount off the corporation tax.

The system I work on is the fixed line bit of the business - if you have Vodafone Home Phone/BB, then it's my system that delivers it for you. Until we got bought by Vodafone (we used to be Cable&Wireless) our system was chronically under developed. We had to hustle for every improvement we could get. Now? We've had more than ten million squids invested in us and we have the same fibre footprint as BT, and much higher speeds. We are making a contribution to ensuring eveyrone in the UK can get fast BB.

Compare that to someone like Amazon, or Google, or Starbucks, who don't even have to invest in the UK because their head office isn't based here, and ther'es a world of difference.

@BleakReference what's your view on a possible TTG purchase?

Hmm, maybe people are allowed opinions without being called 'twat'.

with opinions as odious as yours? nah.

ps. my mrs wasn't born here yet has UK citizenship. Am i to believe she's here to 'milk the country'? get fucked.

OK, so new question. Do you have a bank account that isn't held with a locally run credit union?

Because if you do, you're directly benefiting from the actions of people who are involved in the net export of wealth from this country. They're arguable a lot more responsible for the failure of local businesses that you've mentioned upthread. Same if you buy anything from a supermarket, buy fuel from any of the major oil companies that run petrol stations in this country, buy service from any of the mobile phone providers, drink beer in any of the brewery controlled pubs in this country... The list goes on quite a long way and I'm sure you can work out who's on it. They're all doing it for the same reasons too. Build up a nest egg while making the smallest contribution possible to the British economy in order to retire to the life of Riley. Compared to your local immigrants, they are several orders of magnitude worse and by buying products and services from them, you're complicit in their activities.

Interestingly, compared to your local immigrants, you're less likely to be making contributions to your local economy. Immigrants are statistically far more likely to be using local owned and run businesses and services than British born nationals are. That money spent in the local economy stays in it for a lot longer and has a higher economic impact than money spent into businesses involved in the global economy. So if you're spending on anything included in that very long list, you too are contributing to the failure of those local businesses that you're lamenting and you're a cunt too.

Hang on. You're moaning about the fact that immigrants come to the country, pay their taxes and leave when they've reached retirement age?

I thought that it was the British that dominated this game?

"To clarify, I live in an area where social deprivation is rife and the local community needs every penny it can get."

OK but how do immigrants cause this?

Brexit was very happy to blame so many issues (lack of funding, lack of community integration funding, lack of housing) on ME. Nothing to do with years of tax dodging and ignore areas by the local UK gov of course...that beacon of democracy everyone can vote out not the EU tyranny :P

Why is that a bad thing, they weren't born here, why would they want to stay and retire here?
Home is home! Not where you spent most of your time earning cash. They pay taxes, they work hard they've got family back in another country that they are supporting.
If the person is australian, New Zealand, South African, Jamaican, there's no issue with then working over here and looking to go back whence they came once their work life is done.
So why the issue with others from unspecified countries?

Of all the potential buyers I've been hearing rumours about, TTG isn't one of them - never heard of them actually. Who are they?

I'm sure there are some solid stats but I've got a hunch that the best immigrants are the ones that leave the country when they've hit retirement age.

No burden on the NHS, social housing, care workers, old folks home blah blah blah.

£155 a week is small fry for someone to leave the country when said person has contributed by paying tax for most of their working lives in the UK.

Oh - so you've done your research on the host nation economic impacts of remittances.

I'd love to read a summary of your key conclusions.

@BleakReference sorry, Voda to buy TalkTalk

I'm as British as can be but leaving the country when I retire is definitely one of my possible retirement plans. I fail to see how that is a bad thing. I should think that working hard and paying a great deal of tax all my working life, but then spending my old age in another country would be great for the economy.

Of course Brexit may have fucked that plan now.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/nigel-farage-refuses-to-deny-claim-hes-applying-for-german-c?utm_term=.up80AZaPJ#.axwnMbmXk

Guido Fawkes claims his spokesperson said no he did not.

I think bluebikerider makes a point that resonants with a lot of people.

I've listened to Kiwis say similar things about Easten Europeans (we work and spend our money here, they just send it all back with no input, etc.).

To describe what is quite a natural view as odious and call him a twat is a dick move.

Where (I think) the problem is, is once you actually look at the facts behind the initial gut feeling.

Lots of other people have given great counterpoints explaining why on a utilitarian level that view doesn't stack up, so I won't repeat them.

Equally, I don't know how the cost of immigration actually stacks up on the local /hyper-local level.

So if anyone has any info on that I'd love to read it.

Anecdotally in Belfast:

Immigrants that need additional resources (language classes/understanding of UK culture) tend to settle in lower income areas
The richer areas then do not redistribute that money to the areas that need the extra resources

Now some areas are better in this, but they have to pull the boat themselves tackling racism and fighting for resources. Shankill and Falls are better at this, but then the Shankill community group that did classes to explain Polish immigrants fought for the UK in the wars was getting funding cut cos "big society".

Therein lies the snag: It's nice to be told immigration leaves net benefits, but if you don't see them and only end up with the costs (note also that LOW income jobs are more pressured by immigration than high income jobs) and all of a sudden it doesn't sound so great.

Bloody immigrant btw.
Doesn't excuse the bollocks that "immigrants just get council houses" btw. But there aren't enough of those either and guess whose fault that is again...

Is it more damaging for immigrants' remittances to be sent home to be invested in pensions than it is for them to be invested in pensions here?

Given how many pensions are essentially investments in globalised stock markets that don't have much bearing on the local economy, I don't see what difference it makes.

In the meantime, all the immigrants' short-term spending will be in the host country - so as well as contributing their labour, they're also contributing some demand.

I'd love to read a summary of your key conclusions.

London Firm Gonclusions and Scientific Studies?

Exactly, its "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist" all over again. Bluebikerider has fallen into the trap of buying the lie.
Yes, immigrants are sending money back home. However it's drop in the ocean of corporations and shareholders sending money into tax havens and tax avoision schemes. As people, immigrants aren't living under bushes and eating thin air while they're here and still buy all of the essential goods and services that everyone else does. If businesses are failing it isn't because of the relatively small amount being exported by immigrants but because of the vast sums sucked out of the local economy by big business. A lot more money is lost to the local economy because big businesses have shoehorned themselves onto the high street than by any immigrants sending spare cash to their relatives in their home country.

Also, as that money goes to other countries, it has a positive economic effect on this country. Education of children and relatives gets funded increasing the skills base and local capability of that country. Care provisions for elderly and sick relatives gets funded with onward benefits of healthcare and retirement support infrastructure in that country. Small construction work gets funded improving that country's housing stock. This means that the country has lower foreign aid needs and will develop into a better production and trading partner for Britain which in turn gives us better competitive international market options and that wealth export is compensated by increased overseas market value of our currency.

However, Blairite Labour and Conservative governments are far more in the economic success of big business which doesn't offer the same economic benefits when they export wealth. They've been happy for sock puppets like UKIP, EDL, Biffers and so on to tell us to blame immigrants and quietly carry on with their business. It's a quasi truth that appears accurate on cursory examination but never stands up to proper scrutiny.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

Love Slumdog Millionaire - that's Dame Maggie Smith's finest moment. etc and so on

avoision

Nice coinage.