EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

Such hubris... Swivel-eyed lunacy of the highest order...

Norway came into the single market with a system far to the left of what Britain and most of the EU has and very far to the left of what the tory Brexiteers want. In that sense Norway didn't need the more benign EU regulations.
I don't think Michael Gove's going to be banging his fists on tables in Brussels arguing for a society or an economy like Norway's. What they talk about is breaking free of regulation and keeping access to markets and freedom of movement. They're confident the EU will cave for fear of losing Britain as a market. Britain doesn't have a written constitution, it doesn't have a Bill of Rights (I'm not sure it has a rights culture at all.) A lot of that slack was taken up by the EU. Now it's gone.
They want Norway Plus.
I don't think you need to be a massive conspiracy theorist to work out what the 'plus' means.

I think we all need to stop looking at Norway and Switzerland and these other fluffy countries, and look at a system that really works. I say we take a page out of China's book.

(Joke aside, I bet there's at least one of those pages worth considering)

Depressing:

http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/brexit-things-will-get-worse-whats-coming-next/

@606 @The_Kindness_of_Trees
Re: Pilger

I can see his point, but aren't those in "extreme poverty" who also voted UKIP and Tories?

Are those in extreme poverty followed and understood the politics of EU in same way they did with the Tories? So, they first put in power the main reason of their and our disgrace, and now we should worry about them, now that they made a second mess for them and for us again.

To me that article is just old school well gone western Communism.

Huge investment in infrastructure,
housing, rail system, road system,
Government funded strategic industries, steel, shipbuilding, vehicle manufacturing,
electronics, Huawei/Lenovo/Foxconn.

Not so hot at handling internal migration,
only recently has the 'hukou' system been loosened,
over dependence upon (imported) coal for power leading to very poor Air Quality.

I can see his point, but aren't those in "extreme poverty" who also voted UKIP and Tories?

No.

From the general election post vote projection seems yes.

Article states:

More than 600,000 residents of Britain's second city, Greater
Manchester, are, reports a study, "experiencing the effects of extreme
poverty" and 1.6 million are slipping into penury.

Source on the study please.

They remember it that way and the votes may have stacked up that way but it'll turn out to be false consciousness.

You forget we're now in the post-facts phase of politics. You can say what you like, even if it's clearly false, cf the entire Leave campaign.

I thought the European Parliament was in Belgium? Not Egypt.
Why is Farage telling them they're in Egypt?

Hasn't Labour lost votes to UKIP in some impoverished areas?

A friend of a friend is mouthing off on Facebook just that with "chattering classes" (anybody with more than 2 pence or braincells to rub together or any empathy I conclude from his mouth foaming rants) and complaining loudly about EU immigrants taking jobs (which is an issue which is real in some areas and should not have been shoved under the carpet)

(labour voters were more likely to be Remain, UKIP obv. super likely to be brexit)

Strasbourg.

Ah yes - I had forgotten.

It seems Farage has just pissed on our collective chips by goading the EU parliament.

The undemocratic institute he somehow got a seat in.

He's fucking abhorrent and I find his behaviours unbelievable.

The sheer hypocrisy of his views on Europe, whilst he's been personally enriching himself from the EU budget, never ceases to amaze me. I think that, alongside his German wife, tell you all you need to know about the man.

From the general election post vote projection seems yes.

I can only speak from the South Wales experience, but there are minimal votes for Conservatives in the areas that voted for Brexit, though UKIP did surprisingly well in the last General Election, but nowhere near enough to get anywhere near getting elected. Well behind Labour.

But he's pretty much proving his own case. "Look at the waste of money that EU stands for, they pay me to stand there and insult them".

^^Votes in the wrong direction or votes lost in the wrong direction are bad either way and they speaks about the electorate.

What have the Germans done this time... :)

(just kidding I know he's doing special pleading she's the "good type" of immigrant)

The holder of my local social media hypocrisy award loves his speech. (it's not the award you want) Quelle Surprise.

In other news I'm hearing a load of EU recruitment exercises to recruit senior clinical staff for the NHS are now absolutely fucked as job offers made are being rejected out of hand.

That's what the (South African) guy at work can't get his head around.

I think the point is that people in poverty who used to vote Labour now vote Tory because they've conflated Labour with mass immigration and the free movement of labour within the EU. They've bought the dummy that Farage et al sold to them.

There's also an instinctive distrust of the EU amongst us Brits; our 'islander' mentality.

labour voters were more likely to be Remain, UKIP obv. super likely to be brexit

I've seen this comment, or similar, mentioned several times over the past few days. For instance, posts referencing the Ashcroft poll and the statement a few pages ago that portrayed Corbyn in a positive light because he delivered a 64%(?) remain vote among labour supporters.

However, I'm wondering if this isn't a distorted picture, and somewhat reminiscent of the classic tale of survivorship bias in WW2 bombers. Over the past few years support for UKIP has grown enormously, stripping members from both the Conservatives but also Labour. Focussing attention on the number of extant Labour supporters who voted remain ignores the (presumably large) number of traditional labour supporters who have already defected.

I would be more interested to know how many current UKIP supporters would traditionally have identified as Labour, and how this would affect the balance of leave/remain if these voters were added to the current labour supporters.