Bad traders

Ok I thought I should probably write something because some stuff was said and I kind of feel like I need to clear the air and stuff. @James. I've mentioned some things said in our private messages - hope you don't mind.

First of all a little bit about me, I'm quite a quiet shy person, I very much dislike confrontation. I suppose you could describe me as panicky if you wanted to. Because of this I sometimes don't respond to messages as quickly as I should - hoping they'll go away etc. It doesn't help that I'm quite new to the form (/track riding) so I don't know the people here. As well as my discomfort @James. has also written to me saying that the situation is genuinely upsetting him and making him feel ill.

Things started off quite badly because after I paid I couldn't contact the seller, the phone number given wasn't his, the tracking code was incorrect and despite paying over the odds for postage it took an age to arrive. I think maybe this didn't help as it set us off on the wrong foot to begin with - although when the wheel arrived I had no issue at all with @James.
I let the seller know the wheel had arrived and it wasn't until later that day when removing the stickers I discovered several cracks and holes in it. I asked around here unsure if they were significant and decided that I didn't want to risk it. So I took the wheel to Fibrelyte a carbon repair place I'd been to in the past. Better safe than sorry! They said they could fill the cracks and holes and it would probably be fine. When I collected the wheel they told me that it was damaged beyond repair and the carbon had detached from the foam core. James has spoken to them and they said the damaged was apparent until the disc was placed into the oven (I'm assuming using an oven is normal?). When it came out of the oven (the holes have been fixed) there is a line across the disc when there carbon has visibly detached.

While I feel very upset about the fact my Christmas present money has effectively been wasted on a 700C paperweight, I can appreciate that from @James. point of view it wouldn't be his fault. As he put it (hope you don't mind me quoting a private message):

"I thought they're just little holes. Obviously now the disc is even more damaged how am I supposed to give a refund?"

I really don't know what to do or say to resolve this issue as whatever happens one of us is going to be disappointed.

I am confused it is definitely in a worse state according to my phone call with carbon repair, something to do with delaminaion and an oven but PLEASE I am no expert and want to see the end of this very badly.

Wait, what? who have dealing with them? you or @Richard1982?

Its sampling defending myself. If I hadn't been dragged into something which is nothing to do with me I wouldn't feel the need would I?

Meh, I'm writing a dissertation, what is a few words on the side?

Guys if you are going for a forum gold submission you need to make all these posts in another topic.

@edscoble this drama is what you've been pushing for all along and now you're trying to suppress it?

This is insanity

Apologies for bringing @PHRESHSLAYTE in to this, I just asked if current James was previous chickenleaverpuller.

I think we all just want to see someone not get shafted £200+ for a broken wheel sold as fit to ride.

Both I went round and James called them up.

I have learnt a lots about fabric softeners' in the CLP's topic, now off to buy some.

Ah yeah good troll post mate.

Your intentions are all too clear, continuously being negative and a bit snide. Peculiar really, for someone who acts morally superior to those in question in a certain important thread, makes me wonder about you...

Gotcha, only just seen your post after submitting.

Everything seemed fair, a refund is necessary (and an oven is sometime needed);

makes me wonder about you...

Love you too.

+1 never met @edscoble I am sure he is lovely IRL though xx

See james? I am lovely, people already vouching for me, this mean I can't do no wrong.

Glad we had talk of an oven, this is heating up...

It might start delaminating any moment.

"I thought they're just little holes. Obviously now the disc is even more damaged how am I supposed to give a refund?"

I really don't know what to do or say to resolve this issue as whatever happens one of us is going to be disappointed.>

Firstly I can completely empathise with you on your aversion to confrontation and the fact that the internet's friendlist forum can be a bit intimidating but I really would suggest you press @James for a full refund. You've been overly generous with your time and understanding all in the name of not kicking up a fuss but speaking from experience (on another forum) you'll almost certainly regret not trying to make him do the right thing.

It really doesn't matter at all that the wheel has delaminated now. You were not buying a trashed wheel on the off chance it could be salvageable. It wasn't in a safe condition when it was supplied to you. It all boils down to the dishonesty (intentional or not) in the way the wheel was sold to you. I really would implore you to get your money back in its entirety.

I forget where this all begin, but reading between the lines I'm guessing James has told you he's not going to give you your money back.

You need to dispute this with paypal asap. The wheel arrived in a condition that was less than you were expecting, the issue with you trying to fix it has muddied the waters but let paypal make their decision.

I honestly feel for you, and given what you've said I know you wish it would all just go away, but you can't just let him walk off with your money.

I still can't believe he charged £25.00 to post a wheel ...

I'd say between the shipping issues and the wheel already being more damaged than you expected, the onus is on @James. to give you a refund even if he wasn't aware of just how bad it was before he sent it. IMHOP you've been very reasonable and understanding with sorting it out and being prepared to fix the wheel at your own expense but obviously you're being left out of pocket through no fault of your own having not even had the chance to use the wheel.

Re: anxiety and confrontation, think of this as a good opportunity to work on some of these things and exercise your own agency in a situation that is difficult to deal with and it's a positive thing, but not something you should be left holding the bill for in any event.

@James. you might not have known it was totally fubarred but it's still your wheel and you didn't take the care to find out about the damage before you sold it so i think you need to do the right thing and take it back for a refund. Shit happens.

Scoble on scene with delaminating onion peel.

Throw my two-bit in.
Consumer Rights Act 2015
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
You're entitled to a full refund. No quibbles, no jeffing around. It's a legal obligation on the part of the seller for a full refund

Section 1(1) of the 2015 Act - 'This Part applies where there is an agreement between a trader and a consumer for the trader to supply goods, digital content or services, if the agreement is a contract.'

Section 2(2) of the 2015 Act - '“Trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.'

The 2015 Act doesn't apply to private sales, just like the SOGA didn't.

I hope we are not using that to go on anyway because it's been longer than 30 days, I've said I'm gonna refund the buyer when paid but your link doesn't actually help

Have you lot sorted all this out yet...?

You need to dispute this with paypal asap. The wheel arrived in a condition that was less than you were expecting, the issue with you trying to fix it has muddied the waters but let paypal make their decision.

No Paypal transaction here I'm afraid.
I had an extremely similar situation with a carbon frame a few weeks ago and even with Paypal's resolution process, it was still an absolute ballache to settle. Here's hoping that James does the decent thing.