Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

While the DT website don't mention if the R460db are tubeless friendly, several other sites including @thecycleclinic would suggest they are.

Anyone have any experience of this, is it a simple as popping stans tape/valve and giving a quick blast with a compressor? Hoping to run a 32-38mm tyre, I see @thecycleclinic mentions 23-25mm tyres, but I'd assume if they hold at higher pressure then the larger volume/lower pressure tyres would be fine too... Other option is SL25 but they're a lot more money, but are a little wider and lighter...

Anyone have any experience of this, is it a simple as popping stans tape/valve and giving a quick blast with a compressor?

There's a DT tubeless kit (tape + valves), compatibility chart says you need part number TVK2110S29808S, in stock at Bike24

tubeless tyres on the DT R460 BD rims are an easy install. I did not even need a compressor.
You can run any tyre width you want but I am the kind of guy that would an MTB rim for a 38mm tyre as with a 23mm wide rim they would balloon a bit. That's me though.

I used stans tape and stans valves and a track pump with the IRC tyres I tried. Schwable one's will be fine too.

Kinlin XR22 RT OCR is the other choice to the DT R460 DB. The kinlin has offset drilling.

Wheel getting rid of the interlace on the non drive side spokes of my rear wheel lead to any kind of catastrophe? (24h 2x) Much loss in stiffness?

Wheel getting rid of...

Oh you!

ha, fail.

Just remembered I asked this question before. Will have a search

Thanks @mdcc_tester and @thecycleclinic, will probably go for DT! Been running 35c on Archetypes for a while and happy enough with the profile and "feel"

Hey guys,
So mainly I am after a pair of 36H eyeleted anodised clinchers preferably Japanese made. But it's freakin hard to find, and came across a pair of Rigida 15/21s. Are they any good? Seems like OEM rims. I'd lace em' with DA HB7600s, brakeless.
Or H+S TB14's for more than double the price? I know they are decent, but do not really like how wide they are.

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Arayas turn up from time to time. Try kinoko?

Tb14 really aren't that wide. I ride some pasela 25s on mine and they look and feel bang on.

Are Sapim Race Spokes axially stiffer than CX Rays? Would replacing my DS CX Rays with Race spokes enable me to run the NDS spokes tighter?

Am pretty sure the answer to these questions is yes but thought I'd double check...

Are Sapim Race Spokes axially stiffer than CX Rays?

Yes

Would replacing my DS CX Rays with Race spokes enable me to run the NDS spokes tighter?

No, unless you also have the DS tighter, and the rim is probably already the limiting factor rather than the spokes.

and the rim is probably already the limiting factor rather than the spokes.

Ah yes, I was thinking the wrong way round. So I guess my only option is to get a tension meter and see if I can crank up the tension on the DS any more. It doesn't help that the rim I am using doesn't list a max tension. Piece of shit Kinlin, was oval out of the box too. Might just bin it and replace it with a R460 which lucky me has compatible ERD.

The Mavic open Pro is narrow and shallow. Now aside from the width not being optimal the rim is not stiff.

Surprisingly close to the TB14 too (neither stiff to build up too).

Thinking about this some more. (Am trying to think of ways to improve fatigue performance of the NDS spokes on one of my rear wheels. )

Say you compare two of the same rear wheel with the exception that one has CX rays on both DS and NDS, and the other has thicker Race spokes on the DS. You build them and you end up with the same tensions in both. Am I correct in saying the wheel with the thicker DS spokes is stiffer, and therefore for a given cyclic loading, and cyclic stresses on the NDS spokes be less and therefore have better fatigue performance?

Is that correct?

Am I correct in saying the wheel with the thicker DS spokes is stiffer

Yes

for a given cyclic loading, and cyclic stresses on the NDS spokes be less and therefore have better fatigue performance?

It's not as simple as that, otherwise plain gauge spokes would be better than butted. The way the stiffness of the spokes interacts with the stiffness of the rim to distribute loads around the wheel is complex. Broadly speaking, making each individual spoke stiffer results in less uniformity of load between spokes, while making the rim stiffer results in more uniformity of load between spokes.

Thanks

At least the TB14 is wide giving you a more comfortable ride though. Tb14 's like mavic OP are best built up for single speeds or 36H rears for geared bikes.

This is how the major wheel manufacturers make wheels with few spokes that dont fall apart. One of the keys to a long lived wheel is a stiff rim, thick spokes are not really needed.

hovis get a tension guauge. Kinlin rims have a tension limit of around 1200N like most rims. Which rim do you have? Never found one that is not round. The latest XR22t and XR31t are HED round every time. The R460 in comparsion show more radial movement (still not alot).

Yes, that's why I usually opt for the TB14, least it retain a classical appearance more than the Mavic, even if the silver only come in polished.

Great, at last got my loaned copy of 'the bicycle wheel' by Jobst Brandt... and began reading it. Also now have both DA 7400 hubs, so ready to get rims, spokes and then started.

Out of interest what's the opinion on the CXP21?

what's the opinion on the CXP21?

Old fashioned, skinny, heavy. They were typically laced to 105 hubs, to give you an idea of their market position. DuraAce hubs deserve better.

I am referring to the XR22t rim that bikehubstore were branding as their own for a while. It was not up to QC standards imo. The pinned joint was terribly aligned and I had to take sand paper to it to level off a distinct ridge there. And also a hop at the joint too. Mind, the front rim was fine and it built up well so perhaps it was just a dud. But even still, am put off.

Received a r460rim yesterday and so far looks good. Will true it up tonight and report back

Every Kinlin XR22T rim I have got and built with is perfect. Round and flat even at the join. Dt R460 on the other hand show a bit more variability not to mention they are in an out of stock with madison and therefore you can't build with them anyway.

Importing Kinlin rims from the U.S is not necessary they have been in the U.K for a while.

what's the opinion on the CXP21?

Old fashioned, skinny, heavy. They were typically laced to 105 hubs, to give you an idea of their market position. DuraAce hubs deserve better.>

Thanks, saw an NOS pair on ebay and thought they might suit the bike being 'period' rims. However I'm erring towards the h plus archetype following the previous advice and the amount of use they appear to get with members here.

Brandt is pretty involved, I like the fact he even discusses wooden wheels. I also received a booklet by Robert Wright called 'Building bicycle wheels' from the friend who leant me Brandt's book, it's very small (46pages) however a very straight forward 'how to' guide. I'm not sure if it's easily available, it was published in California in 1979 and originally cost $1.95, worth looking out for for any other beginners .