Track Tyres, Indoor and Out

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f40/vittoria-magic-mastik-anyone-40786-3.html#post717946

Based on this I'm going to use normal Mastik for my tyres. Also happy to be a luddite. With all my teeth.

Eesh. Sounds like my recent experience with conti carbon specific glue. Would rather use 3M spray mount...

Just read that velocipedsalon thread, enough to put me off too

For the track I highly recommend Terokal 2444. It is a favorite of many of the national teams. Its main drawback is that its grip is so strong that it is quite difficult to remove a tyre without damage.

What's wrong with mastik one?

Not had any issues with Conti Carbon rim glue. Used on the TT bike and the track bike.

What's wrong with mastik one?

On the track: higher losses (rolling resistance) and less security. Don't underestimate the safety needs. That is why almost all track disallow tape and I know of at least one track that forbids the use of standard road mastics as well. Anyone who has seen a tyre explode on the track knows why..

On the road: the losses are not of any consequence and the ability to remove a tyre and mount a new one is important. Mastik One (and Conti glue) are about as strong as one can get a bond that still allows for non-destructive removal. For the road I would not wholly discount the new "Magic Mastic".. I have not yet to test it but would not hesitate to (just have enough mastics and cements in my toolkit, whence little motivation to purchase)

at least one track that forbids the use of standard road mastics as well

You always bang on about this, which velodrome?

You do come across as something of a glue fetishist.

Example: http://www.rsg-augsburg.de/radrennbahn/oeffnungszeiten/ttp://

"Sicherheitszustand der Bahnräder:

Aus gegebener Veranlassung wird darauf hingewiesen, dass Schlauchreifen auf den Felgen nur mit einem speziellen Kleber aufgeklebt werden dürfen. Die Verwendung von Klebebändern oder einem normalen Schlauchreifenklebekitt ist nicht zulässig, da diese Anwendung die Reifen nicht genügend mit der Felge verklebt. Das Abspringen der Reifen von der Felge führt im Normalfall zum Sturz, wobei die sich daraus ergebenden Folgen vom Verursacher selbst zu tragen sind. "

They are not the only track but the easiest to link to and cut-paste...

Doesn't say clinchers can't be used, though.

For web use a wheel is basically gem. UCI rules require. The wheel must be in a safe condition.

Well, clincher rims are uci legal. I know you love clinchers. Problem solved.

Been using Sprinters at Derby, no issues.

Well, clincher rims are uci legal. I know you love clinchers. Problem solved.

Actually no. What are UCI legal are wheels that are declared UCI legal. For mass start road these are standard wheels and those certified by the UCI as acceptable:
http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rulesandregulation/16/51/87/Non-standardwheelsinconformitywithArticle13018_English.pdf

For the track? That list does not apply but there are still loads of rules. Front disc wheels, for example, are allowed in races against the clock.. For "Hour Record" I think you need at least 16 spokes--- and, interestingly, no more than 32-- with a cross section of no more than 2mm. That excludes, for example, Sapim CX-Rays. I am out of the loop on the technical rules these days but it is not just ...

There is this wonderfull concept of "safety" and that empowers a lot of disqualifications and rule changes...

That list does not apply but there are still loads of rules.

But not one rule that says "Thou shalt not use Clinchers" which was my point.

But not one rule that says "Thou shalt not use Clinchers" which was my point.

Also no rules on what tyres to use-- beyond width. That still does not prevent under the banner of "safety" forbidding nearly all dual compound tyres, tubular or clincher, from nearly every wooden track I know. In an elite UCI sanctioned races perhaps they must not be disallowed but, of course, given their poor performance nobody were ever think of using them... and should one want to .. probably one could sue to have the rider disqualified for intentionally putting people in harm's way...

Hmmm, this thread becomes tricky to read with EdwardZ on ignore. It probably makes more sense though, and the total bollocks level is probably lower. I'm about to try using Vittoria Magic Mastik for the first time, so if you don't hear from me again then it hasn't gone well...

What are UCI legal are your wheels but only if the commissar likes your face.

Ftfy.

RIP. Forever in our hearts...

Yes, but seeing as I don't have a pit bitch or personal mechanic, it's ME who is going to be cleaning my rims... I don't really fancy having to angle grind basetape and leftover rubber off my rims every time I change tyres.

Mastik one, properly applied, seems to give adequate hold. My experience with conti carbon glue is not the same (though the alu-specific one hasn't killed me yet). Mastik one it is.

Yes, but seeing as I don't have a pit bitch or personal mechanic, it's ME who is going to be cleaning my rims... I don't really fancy having to angle grind basetape and leftover rubber off my rims every time I change tyres.

Firstly, you don't need (or even should) clean rims bare every time you change tyres. Old mastic should only be removed when it is old and flaky and with alu rims a good rub down with an acid (wire) brush is generally sufficient. If the layers of glue are getting too thick you can remove them. That is generally after a number of tyre changes. Here too there is no need to get the rim totally clean.

Mastik one, properly applied, seems to give adequate hold. My experience with conti carbon glue is not the same (though the alu-specific one hasn't killed me yet). Mastik one it is.

Mastik One (just a Conti standard)--- as I wrote--- gives a good hold on the road. For the track it is sub-optimal. As an aside: I would not bother with Conti carbon glue with carbon road rims.

So, I am also facing the question to choose the right track tire.

I use American Classic clincher wheels, as I just begun track riding. Mostly I ride at HHV, but I think of going to LVV soon as well. Therefore, I search for a tire which is capable of handling both velodromes well.

Right now I have some Kenda Kaliente on the wheels, but I think there are not allowed at Lee Valley, since they seem to be dual compound tires.

Any Suggestions? Right now I know only of the Vittoria Diamante Pro Pista and the Vittoria Zaffiro Slick. Is there more that will do the job?

Conti Supersonic, latex tubes.

Seems like a nice tire, but its says its not really suited for training but more for actual racing.

Oh, assumed you were after a race tyre. TBH I'd happily train on them, and do in the summer.

Fair enough, I think they are probably a good option for my second pair of tires. But so far I still have to do alot of training and accreditation. And I will spend a lot of time at HHV during the winter months and I don't want to buy new tires every two months or so.

Probably could do worse than GP4000sII then, 20c front 23 rear.