Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

@miro_o @thecycleclinic @mdcc_tester

Thanks all for the advice! I think a compromise such as the laser/race is a good option. I had considered DA hubs however the cup & cone design puts me off from a longevity point of view. At least with cartridge bearings, if you neglect the bearings the hub isn't written off. Perhaps I shouldn't be so lazy in servicing them!

Out of interest which tensiometers are being used for wheelbuilds here, if any? And if not using tensiometers to gauge average and relative spoke tensions what method do you use, if any?

I use a Park TM1 to make sure the tensions are in the right ball-park, and then use the spoke pinging method to ensure they're all (roughly) the same. I find the spoke-pinging method is more precise than the TM1.

I used the very unscientific method of going by feel for average spoke tension:

If a spoke becomes very hard to turn, stop. Check tension of the surrounding spokes and if spoke isn't in under strange angle.

Once spokes become relatively tight you'll often hear them "ping" and creak so you'll sorta know when tension is really going up. (not all do though, but you'll notice it in the last truing/rounding phases)

Feeling the spokes, if there are some feeling VERY loose relatively after truing/rounding to say 1mm there's an issue. Never happened to me, but could be a flaky rim or other issue. Or perhaps you accidentally mixed a spoke length. (yeah that's something I see myself doing ;)

Once done squeeze the spokes to untension (many ways to do this, Sheldon uses an old bicycle crank) and if there's anything wrong you will feel it too.

A very unscientific method resulting in a fine 36H rear track and now a front 32H for road use on a cheap n cheerful heavish rim (Open sport)

I'd buy myself a spoke tensionometer for low spoke count wheels or wheels for very fast riding/downhilling as there's no room for error (broken face risk...)

Park Tool one is around £50 I believe so that's not too bad. Some are very £££
No doubt the cycleclinic can make a recommendation :)

I've got a rim that is rather not round. To get it round requires more tension unevenness than I would like. What is the conventional wisdom here, it would seem my options are:

1. Run it with a hop and even tension,
   
2. Get it round with uneven tensions.
   
3. Some happy halfway house.
   
4. Bin
   
   

or even crazy idea 5. Squash the rim at its widest point somehow to plastically deform it. Probably stupid.

Probably easier to stretch than squeeze.

I'd go for option 3 or 4. Will you be using a rim brake?

Good point. Yeah will be running a rim brake. Rear wheel

Was at CRC today to ask what mechanics use.
Either park tools SW, but that means you need to get one per spoke gauge so he recommended the BBB BTL15 which he uses at home

A nicer solution, if you're going to build more wheels, is to get some hex head-ed nipples. Means you use a different tool again, but is a lot nicer to bring up to tension than with a spoke key

http://www.bdopcycling.com/Spokes%20and%20Nipples-External%20Brass%20TG%20Nipples.asp
&
http://www.bdopcycling.com/Tools-Internal%20Spoke%20Wrench.asp

The BBB tool is nice on the road,
or looking after a mismatched stable of wheels.
That's all I had.
It's so much nicer when building to have only one slot to use.

get some hex head-ed nipples

I use the Park Tool dishing tool. But any dishing tool will do the job. The Park TM-1 is out by 10% or so with sapim race spokes. I think 25 is around 1200N. sold mine recently. I currently use a DT Swiss tensio (got two in fact) and a sapim gauge. I do not however use the charts provided as I have my own jig with a load cell and get deflections of that.

Doing tension by how hard the nipple is to turn will lead to variable tension as the threads are not perfect. Some nipples are just hard to turn and yet the tension is no different to the neighbouring spokes. Nipples do distort as well which can cause them to be tight. The main reason why your method works is either you have pretty good feel and doing it on a track wheel helps alot as it not dished.

Hovis just ride the wheel as it is. If you can feel the hop then bin it. I never try to correct roundness. The rim is either good or it isn't if it isn't it gets binned (I dont bin many rims thankfully).

Tx :)

I don't mind using a spoke wrench, that tool looks much more defined than using a screw driver though ...

Truing a touring wheel that was hand built...either the jig is off from using it (unior 1689) which is unlikely or using a quick release axle is crappy (not unlikely) or the wheel isn't centered.

Which would be strange. I guess only a dishing tool answers that question? (Not bought it yet) & better getting an axle kit for geared wheels?

(Cos these will die in a bit getting worn now)

Flip the wheel, will allow you to check dish.

Tx, I did and it will over to the same side (nearer to left pin) when I did.

I checked it was seated right :)

EDIT: It looks like it's in the middle of the part of the hub shell. As in, ignore cartridge part, ignore the left part of the hub that sticks out a bit, and the rim is right over it.
Me thinks it's time for a book, as I clearly don't get geared wheels.

Christmas list: Dishing tool & a book ;)

Haven't searched and this may have been addressed already but I have a question about spoke wind up. What causes it? What can be done about it? How can it be prevented?

I usually lube the threads and the contact between nipple and rim but every now and again. Very annoying as it generally occurs towards the latter stages of a build when you've trued it and are reaching optimum tension when the creaking starts. Exactly when you need to do those micro turns you can't.

Adding extra lube (I generally use chain lube or linseed oil) and squeezing spokes to get better alignment helps a bit. Any thoughts or tips?

What causes it?

Friction between nipple and spoke

What can be done about it?

You can unwind it

How can it be prevented?

It can be minimised by lubricating the threads and reduced by using thicker spokes, but it can't be entirely prevented. Friction between male and female threads is the main mechanism by which a threaded fastener is prevented from loosening in service. If you could actually cut the friction to zero, which would be the only way to completely eliminate wind up, the spokes would immediately loosen to zero tension as soon as you let go of them :-)

Overturn and then loosen a bit. Two steps forward - one step backwards. Makes sense?
I also this:


From Gerd Schraner

In the category n00b questions: I didn't mark the spokes with a postitnote/sharpie on the wheel I did. All the spoke nipples turned OK, though some resisted quite a bit. (1 or 2) (Yes I lubed them all too)

I destressed the spokes while truing. (the old squeeze method).
How do I check now if a spoke is wound?

Only thing I can think of is run my fingers past all of them to check butting position...

@Simba that looks like a good method, tx :)

Spoke windup Any thoughts or tips?

Only build with bladed spokes! (... they are actually really easy to build with)

You're welcome. Do the above and then take the wheel for at ride. The spokes will set themselves straight and then you might have to fine tune the wheel if some of them were very wound, but thats it.

Nah, a properly built wheel shouldn't need a pingy ride to settle in. Stress relieve properly and over tighten/back off when building and it'll be fine.

I've got a home-made stress relieving tool (not a euph) which is just a length of half inch round aluminium bar with the ends machined into half-spheres, and one end covered in bar tape. You insert it between a pair of spokes, and bend the spokes round a bit further adding to the tension. A bit like Sheldon Brown with his crank . So far I haven't had any pinging on a first ride, but then I tend to build with bladed spokes so you can prevent spoke wind-up with a spoke-holding tool.

My stress relieving tool are my hands. I have calluses to prove it. Spoke wind up is avoided to a large extent by using alloy nipples. The sapim ones are quite corrosion resistant, don't break and as the almost eliminate wind up with lasers so that is the best reason to use them.

Anodised black brass nipples seem to cause more wind up than standard brass so avoid those. Also spoke length is key if you start to run out of threads wind up happens which is why I normally round down on spoke lengths. Also sometimes some batch of spoke are really bad for wind up. Sapim had that last year with black lasers but that problem passed a while back.

Uniformity of threads on the spoke and nipples are important too. If a spoke winds up early I swap the nipples and then the spoke and often cures it. windup is never a big problem for me but I don't know how it varies with other spoke brands. I use lasers a lot so of was going to happen every day it should to me. What spokes do you use a arup.

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