Bike fit / correct riding position

"as long as you can get fairly aero"

And how do you do that without some degree of flexibility?

Also, going fast for how long? 4min, 25mi, 100mi, 500mi?

Seems dumb. I presume you were clear about the usage of the bike? Why did you not just transfer the setup of the MTB over to the road bike?

The wonders of quoting out of context:

as long as you can get fairly aero, you don't need to be any more flexible.

So I'm not saying don't be flexible, I'm saying be no more flexible than you need to get into a tuck.

As for distance, the further, the more of an effect it'll have. It's marathon runners that I first heard it about.

I think the trainers I know would say that 'being flexible'* can lead to better (smoother, more symmetrical) movement. Different people have completely different limiters though.

I'm pretty sure being able to touch your toes isn't an indicator of anything useful for cycling.

*massively non-specific and kinda useless phrase.

You're missing the point. If your flexible enough to ride comfortably in position x - why would being a bit more flexible to ride say 1cm lower (or longer or whatever tests faster) than position x not be 'better'?

Also, having an aero position but having flexibility headroom that allowed you to get lower temporarily or tuck with less strain for longer will allow you to ride with less drag.

I'm pretty sure being able to touch your toes isn't an indicator of anything useful for cycling

Unless you have very short arms, not being able to touch your toes might indicate very tight hamstrings which could be hampering you from folding over into a more aero position?

I don't think so. I mean if they're super-tight from racing or training yes, but that will pass and most cyclists get tight hamstrings from riding in position, they're adapting innit. What lots of riding won't sort out is tightness in the hip from hard muscles around nerves that'll mess with the top of the pedal stroke (and other things).

I think for more people the limiter for getting low for TTs etc is in the lower back. Lots of riding can help that. And the right genes.

I do think so. You seem to be forgetting a rather large proportion of cyclists who don't 'race' or 'train'. I'm not talking about temporarily tight hammies, I'm talking about 20 years at a desk, decides to get fit and do the Ride 100 or an Ironman or something. Racers if they're anything like me will likely have adapted their position over years and probably done some stretching during this time. Even including racers, without an idea of the rider's flexibility, how can fitter can't decide to prescribe stretching or not? How do they know they will need to readjust the rider in a month or two? Things like hamstring flexibility (touching toes or doing a seated measured slide out) are pretty simple ways of indicating a baseline or measuring change, ie. if the rider has increased their range of movement with a stretching routine they've been given.

As for the lower back thing - tight hamstrings cause the pelvis to rotate back which does what? That's right, put strain on the lower back. I stretch hamstrings when I have a sore lower back and it works quite well.

That's interesting. I agree hamstring stretches are a good thing BTW. For me they help with asymmetry in my pedal stroke but don't help me hold a lower TT position. I have mobility in my lower back to spare #boastpoast so perhaps this is less typical than I thought.

Are you bending at your hips or your lower back tough?

I don't have a flat back... some bend in the lower back.

My left hip pulls forward a bit. It actually doesn't cause any problems except make me think there's efficiency / moar-powah to be had.

Stretching can increase the functional range of muscles. By lengthening the hamstrings the body can adopt a lower position (more aeros etc). Many people do put themselves near the limits of their physiology (slam that stem etc). Spinning pedals does not use the full range of movement of muscles/bones but poor positioning can put someone closer to their actual limits. A lot of people after working on flexibility can raise their saddle a bit.

Flexibility with out strength to support it can lead to instability, whereas strength without flexibility will lead to a very limited range of motion. As with many of these things people should be looking for a comfortable compromise, that is relevant for their discipline.

Ideally your bike fit won't be set up for you at the limit of your functional range. Your flexibility will vary from day to day, and how much exercise you have been doing that day. If your position is near your limit the muscles and tendons are more likely to become sore (the body's signal to stop using them). This is why you may feel stiffer at the end of a long or hard day in the saddle, your body is asking for you to back off a bit.

What's your take on the 'faster... by getting less flexible' myth theory?

@miro_o

If you are a high level athlete in the middle of your range of motion then working on strength/power probably makes a lot of sense. Range of motion can be considered in a dynamic or static fashion. On your bike you want a decent range of dynamic motion, flexibility beyond this is probably not essential for cycling fitness (*see caveat below). I'd assume as dynamic range of motion improves static would do too.

I'd suggest that many peoples limiting factor is their range of motion and that they are near that limit, in which case further strengthening (which is likely to decrease the range of motion) would be less than productive. Whereas a dedicated athlete who has worked on flexibility way beyond their dynamic range of motion may well benefit from developing strength. For an average person who lives a sedentary life their hamstring flexibility is pretty poor, so they would need to work on this to get a decent position and then develop their strength. It is easier to stretch muscles and then build them up than to build up muscles and then stretch them.

It amuses me when people assume that what works for high level athletes will apply to themselves. Its like compression garments, which only work if the wearer has a quite low body fat, though I see a lot of lardy fuckers wearing them because they have seen professionals wear them.

*We also have to consider the long term effects of exercise at extremes. Many athletes are quite crippled later in life. A lot of training inures people against pain, what may have been beneficial for high levels of sport can have a detrimental effect later in life.

Good post.

When you say "less flexible" are you just talking about the drawbacks of stretching before exercise? Because that is generally thought to be true - ie. pre-exercise stretching is actually worse for performance.

"It amuses me when people assume that what works for high level athletes will apply to themselves. Its like compression garments, which only work if the wearer has a quite low body fat, though I see a lot of lardy fuckers wearing them because they have seen professionals wear them."

Who says these only work with low body fat? If that was the case why would they prescribe a fat fuck like me DVT compression socks?

I was quoting @Khornight2.

pre-exercise stretching is actually worse for performance.

^ repost. That was my initial response (on the previous page) ;-)

When skins garments were first released they were intended to reduce fatigue in muscles by limiting vibration. The instructions even had a note that they were meant for people with a low body fat. I guess they have removed this to alienate many buyers.

Compression garments have other benefits too, such as varicose veins etc.

There's a big difference between pre-ex stretching and 'flexibility'.

I use them to assist in venous return when sitting for a long time, much the same as flight socks. The potential vibration damping thing is only for runners. Runners >>>

Massage and pre exercise stretching should be to warm up muscles and make them more pliable.

Deep stretching work before vigorous exercise is not a great idea as it can leave joints overly lax and damage can occur in strenuous exertion.

Yeah, I was just trying to get some discussion on the matter, I'm a fat fuck who doesn't stretch ( or ride a bike that much at the moment) or race so the answer doesn't bother me... I'm going to carry on not stretching! (Although I do tiachi a couple of times a week)
But the theory interests me.

Yeah I've heard some hugely contradictory views but don't really have the background knowledge to pick them apart.

I trust certain trainers/physios though because I know they get results.

There probably is some of this going on too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOPF5Edzfv8

This type of riding position always intrigued me... can someone expand on the posterior position and the saddle? how uncomfortable is it?

why?

how?