IGH, Alfine, Rohloff, Sturmey Archer and frames/bikes built for them...

I've thought for a while that internal geared hubs (IGH) are the commuting future, less maintenance, ease of use, all weather reliability and that for commuting/light touring would be the ideal compliment to a robust mudguard/rack ready frame.

If you want it to be a 21st century machine then disc brakes are a given as well.

But apart from the genesis day one alfine 8spd, I haven't seen many off the peg bikes that fit that description.

Questions that come to mind are why aren't there more out there? And if my Google fu is weak what are they?

Also think of this as a space for all things IGH, so feel free to post up any and all bikes which fit in...

complete bikes or frames?

There are plenty of European bikes that fit this description. For example:

Fahrradmanufaktur:

Tout Terrain:

Gazelle:

I'm thinking complete bikes, something you can buy and ride straight away, but IGH frames are all good as well.
The thing is IGH's should be a bigger part of the commuter market, but you need there to be more choice in the market for that to happen, and you only get more choice if there is more demand, but you can't get more demand, if no one knows they are available, etc etc etc....

Ahh Germany, ever forward thinking, do they come under hybrid/city bikes and do you have links to them to see if they are available over here....

got to say I'm not a fan of flat bars, but most of these types of bikes seem to be aimed at the flat bar fans.

Questions that come to mind are why aren't there more out there?

Charge used to do em - the Mixer for example. I had one, now my cousin does. It lives out its days in Singapore :)

The market is small in the UK I suspect because

1. The ones that work are not cheap (Alfine, Rohloff) and the people who would benefit from them are largely buying on price
   
2. Those that understand their benefits also understand how to keep a derailleur based bike going
   
3. The cheap ones don't work - they fail, and completely, unlike cheap indexed gear systems which can / will stagger on
   
4. Shops can't service them, or won't, or won't after losing money doing something notionally simple like puncture repair
   

I think the alfine 8 is very cheap for what you get.

Can someone explain me the failure of Alfine Di2?

this is my favorite one because it has pretty much everything you need. I have a similar one but
with a chain tensioner.

do they fail?

Yes, but I can get an entire eight speed indexed drivetrain for a whole lot less, and don't have to worry about chain tension :)

Bikefix on Lambs Conduit St stock Tout Terrain and Fahrradmanufaktur - I was there a couple weeks ago and they had a few with IGH.

Failed as a product in terms of sales ..

Nobody wants it you mean? I suspect it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

That's true, I was just thinking in the world of IGH when you don't want to do a lot of maintenance.

Has it failed? How has it failed? Personally I can't see the need for it. I could imagine it being too expensive for it's market. I heard there were some functional problems with the cable 11speed when it came out. And, frankly, the cable alpine 8sp is fairly flawless and very cheap nowadays.

Like Howard says it has no purpose. Just adds cost and batteries. I haven't touched my
gear cable for 4 years. It has full length housing and still works perfectly.

Well yeah what @Howard said .. last time i looked into it they were cheaper than Ultegra 6870 and you could get 8 speed as an option even cheaper. So why doesent anybody want it? Still cheaper than Rohloff and e-Tube!

The only maintenance headache IGHs save you from is cleaning the cassette - and jockey wheels should you have a frame that deals with chain tension. But then you just exchange one headache for another.

You still need to maintain the chain, adjust the gears, even periodically open the thing up and deal with its internals.

On paper they sound great, and they are good, but the benefits aren't so clear cut when in the real world, which makes them a hard sell.

the shifting quality on my ultegra seems to degrade fairly quickly. my alfine is always the same.
I only did the first oil change. you don't need to adjust any gears. Maybe compensate for a bit
of cable stretch in the beginning but that's years ago.

it's actually worse in europe when the temperature drops. they freeze and stop shifting.
The rohloff has special winter oil.

@Howard, I'm not sure you're correct, not wanting to sound argumentative, and I'm probably generalising a huge amount myself, but for the majority of cyclists who want to ride to work, week in, week out, not do much maintenance and don't need it to be spectacularly light or beautiful looking, and wouldn't mind doing a couple of slightly longer jaunts into the countryside without having another bike to do so, then an IGH bike would be ideal.

Obviously I've never owned one, if they do go bust, it's pretty much fit a new one, and if you've got an attached mudguard, getting a punctured rear wheel off and back on is a bit of a pain, but surely the reliability from being sealed, probably cheaper versions of Di2 coming down the line to eradicate stretching shifter cables and the way the bikes are designed to be one bike to rule them all means they should carve out a larger market?

I've been running the Sturmey Archer SRF 3 speed hub on my Condor Tempo (bought from the forums own @braker) - And very pleased I am with it too. Done a few thousand kms on it now and only needed to adjust it once after the first couple of rides.
Its in contrast with the S3X fixed hub I originally had planned for the bike, but Condor failed miserably at installing it after multiple efforts on their part.

I'm probably generalising a huge amount myself, but for the majority of cyclists who want to ride to work, week in, week out, not do much maintenance and don't need it to be spectacularly light or beautiful looking, and wouldn't mind doing a couple of slightly longer jaunts into the countryside without having another bike to do so, then an IGH bike would be ideal

I agree entirely - they problem is these people buy on price, and when you put a cheaper eight speed index system next to the alfine bike, guess which one they choose? In the UK we like to feel like we save money now, not hypothetically in the future when the cost of ownership of the Alfine dips below the cheaper traditional system.

As above - wide ratio IGHs are interesting and excellent, but in the UK they can't flourish because non-cyclists won't buy them and cyclists think they are cool but don't need them :)

I do have Rohloff lust, BTW - one day...

Interestingly though, they may have a brighter future here in the UK via e-bikes? Just a thought.

they rob a lot of battery power on ebikes.

I tried an Alfine 8 for a while, but didn't really get on with it. Has very indirect feel in any gear other than 5. Also had a few issues with it slipping out of gear due to tension on the shifter cable (yellow marks are meant to align, but had to have slightly more tension).

The sheer weight of the things is quite annoying as well. The rear wheel thuds into everything in it's path.

The new Pinion gearboxes look interesting. There is an 8 speed one that is much lighter than the previous 18 speed. Keeps all the weight centralised too.