Turbo Trainer Advice

I meant this but it's not as cheap as when Igot it. But it's good and quiet.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-supercrono-power-fluid-elastogel-trainer-2013/

Anyone used the Jet Black?

I'd go With the kurt kinetic. Wanted one myself. But they are pricey locally, and I scored an amazing deal on my Cycleops.

A proper turbo tyre is well Worth it. Some standard tyres fall apart on the turbo (looking at you conti), and the turbo tyre will be quieter.

No need for a turbo Wheel. But if you run expensive cassettes on the road bike. Its a good way to reduce cost in the long run. I have a warped carbon clincher rim I laced With mans heaviest spokes, to mans heaviest hub, and fitted a 16-27 cassette. The weight adds to the feel of the turbo. I plan to add some Fishing weights to the spokes at some point. The cassette is a solid steel one, and gives Nice gearing for the turbo With need to front shift.

I'd also invest in a front Wheel support. Its Nice to raise the front and have the bike feel stable.

Had to pass on mint Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll for £180 on bikeradar due to lack of space :( its mahosive apparently.

So if I go turbo with spare wheel (that has turbo tyre) I guess I'll also need a cassette and chain for it? Thats ok as I use KMC and have the link remover tool.

Although I could afford Jetblack Whisper drive or Elite Muin direct drive the amount of space it takes mean its a no-go for me; although that wont need the spare wheel ..

I'll keep an eye on forums/ebay.

I'd just get the KK road machine. Vanilla bikes had some offers on.

You dont need a separate Chain. You dont need anything other than the turbo.

I just have a lot of nice parts on my drivechain that I'd rather not wear out on the turbo. Plus the 11 speed 16-27 cassette is amazing for interval training. Especially With my turbo set to steep resistance curve.

Another big fan of the KK road machine here @amey. I'd also recommend the optional mega-flywheel.

Kurt Kinetic Pro flywheel review

I was thinking that adding those split ball weights, that Fishing folk use, to my spokes. Would have a good flywheel effect. For cheaps.

Should colour them and fit them losely for that spokey dokey effect.

Don't bother with a turbo tyre - just use an old tyre. Turbo tyres aren't any quieter.
As for a spare wheel - see if you can find one someone is chucking out with a worn out rim.

I have an Elite Fluid Chrono - its ok, not TOO noisy and is very simple to use.
I would sometimes prefer something with a bigger flywheel for more realistic road feel. I just have to pretend that I am constantly riding uphill or into a headwind :)

@Smallfurry that's not a bad plan with the weights - let us know how you get on.

+1 on the wheel support - I just use a massive book, but you def want something to get it level.

The Elite Muin is supposed to have horrendous lack of flywheel effect - a lot of people on the TT forum have sold theirs because of this.

The JetBlack direct drive one does look very good...

I did originally try attaching a 5kg/11lb barbell plate* ( the pro flywheel is 5.45kg/12lb ), but it caused a fair bit of vibration when riding. I can only speculate that this was due to the plate not being perfectly round?

*cheapskate

probably due to that and it not being perfectly centered - you would need to carefully "balance" the wheel to avoid that kind of vibration.

What's the deal with adding weights? Just to get better road feel or something?

If you notice the difference over the taste of blood and imminent death you're not turbo training properly. ;)

@amey: I have an old mavic cxp33 on a 600 hub. 10 speed shimano comp.
you're welcome to it. You're now going to tell me you need 11 speed aren't you?

Not just feel. The lower kinetic energy means that riding on the turbo is not the same as riding on the road (durrrh). There are different muscle recruitment involved, as you have to push through the deadspots. One of the reasons claimed that power on the turbo is often (considerably) lower than the power you can put out on the road for the same percieved effort.

The lower KE is more akin to the pedaling technique required when riding through mud or uphill.

Adding weight to the wheel increase the amount of kinetic energy in the system (flywheel effect). Run down times on the turbo are very short - for example perhaps 10-20s from 20mph. On the (flat) road the run down time would be much longer.

There is a massive thread on the TT forum about it if you need to get to sleep...

The dead spots are still dead spots on the road though.

Lower power on turbos must be because no bastard actually wants to ride on the turbo so of course RPE goes up.

Is it the wheel though? Run down time on the road is because you have a big lump of gristle on the bike too.

I dunno, I'd rather keep my bike rideable so it's on and off the turbo quick without need for wheel changes and stuff. That extra riding time probably makes up for my lack of KE in the wheel anyway :P

#gophysicsnerds

You are correct that the reason KE is high on the road is because there is a big lump sitting on the saddle moving forwards.

As you are not moving forwards on the turbo, this isn't present - so to simulate it you need to increase the mass of the only moving object - ie the wheel or flywheel.

I'll definitely post how it changes Things. Seems a cheap hack that doesnt mod the expensive turbo.

This article isn't specifically about turbos but the principle is the same - differing KE between flat and uphill: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/climbing-and-time-trialling-how-power-outputs-are-affected/

Cheers, interesting read.
Still not sure if it means I should be lead-weighting my wheels though :)

Depends:

If you want to train for hill climb like efforts then no, probably not.
If you want to train for flat, fast efforts then possibly.

Or you could just go ride outside - on the flat or up hill :)

RE: turbo wheel use:
If I had training Wheels I'd just run them. But when I put the road bike together I'll just have a carbon tubular rear, With FMB tub, and Ti cassette. So I'll keep that for the glorious outdoors.

I had a conti clincher on the fixed. Used it on the turbo, had two flats, got pissed off, and fitted the turbo tyre. Bet the turbo tyre better outdoors too. fecking conti gp's.

I currently have the fixed gear on the turbo. Its shit for intervals. But I'm getting on With what I'm going to Call hardish base miles. Which is 75% FTP. Doesnt feel hard, doesnt feel easy. I'm at 78 rpm cadence. Which is probably my climbing cadence. Tend to do an hour. As thats all I have time for.

Going to move to 2x20 before my Gran Canaria week in feb.

See also: http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2009/01/turbocharged-training.html

and

http://www.smas.org/2-kongres/papers/1721.pdf

Or you could just go ride outside

Most of my training is outside and event-specific so I should be ok. I also use the same bike indoors and out so I won't be doing wheel swaps any time soon. I guess I could fill the training wheel's rim up with lead just for shits and giggles.

hehehe

yeah I reckon the actual difference it would make to your training would be pretty minimal, in terms of muscle development/training. It just might make it tiny a bit less horrible if it doesn't feel like riding through treacle...