Support Mini Holland

Good update. I should add some info about the Enfield version as the consultations for this have now started. Enfield council have been busy sending questionnaires to residents who live within its "Quieter Neighbourhoods" catchment areas to find out what people think about the area and what they say should be done to improve it.

They've stressed that nothing is a foregone conclusion, and that (in the context of Quieter Neighbourhoods, at least) the shape of the scheme will be down to what affected residents actually want, which is encouraging and scary in about equal measures.

They pointed residents towards this website, created by Bristol's council: http://www.trafficchoices.co.uk/ and I understand they're in the process of building their own similar site. That's designed to show residents the kind of options that are available, the costs of each option, and the advantages and the disadvantages of each.

The consultation itself doesn't have a closing date, as far as I understand - you can respond to it at any time, even during the trials when they eventually start. There isn't a schedule in Enfield of when things are going to happen, so no clues can be taken from the consultation either.

The council did conduct some pre-consultation polling which found that some 70% of respondents were broadly in favour of the Cycle Enfield improvements, with many comments suggesting that people in Enfield want to see a "cafe culture" and less space and consideration given over to what they perceive as excessive levels of traffic, so that's all good.

We're still waiting on the initial results from the consultation (in fact in order to get the results from the pre-consultation the council had to be served an FOI request!), but I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of it.

This might be kinda irrelevant, but in terms of not making it us and them, is it helpful to have Mini Holland as the "brand", pictures of Dutch bikes etc? Doesn't it lead to a perception that it's "pro cycling" rather than pro people and nice public realm? (It is nice and neat/catch though)

It's a fair point, and one that I've seen a lot of people making. But... the money is being allocated specifically for cycling improvements, so by necessity the bids are pro cycling. The councils involved are doing what they can to improve things for everyone in spite of that, but the nature of the beast is that Mini Holland is primarily a cycling-focused scheme.

In the case of Enfield, certainly, there are a lot of local whingers going "well, why is the council wasting money on cycle schemes in a Borough with only 3% of transportation by bike, they should be spending it on this and that and the other", but they don't seem to realise that the £27 million is being pumped into Enfield by TFL specifically to improve cycling facilities, or that the council is making an effort to try to make that money go further by improving the public realm, too.

That's a really clear reason, and one that everyone can get behind, would be good if people were more aware of it. I realise it's been mentioned several times upthread (that the available funding is specifically for cycling infrastructure improvements) and I just didn't click... (with the branding).
In fact even the most anti-cyclist bod would welcome the idea that you win the cycling stuff money and use it for not just cycling stuff. Screw you cycle stuff funders!

will there be 'coffee shops' in mini holland?

will people be able to ride with Jah's Blessed Herb in this mini holland without being criminalised?
#nowthatswhaticallprogress

Interesting stuff @bothwell - as far as I understand it they're going to have to get a move on and spend that money. I think it needs to be spent in Walthamstow by the end of 2016.

Good to hear 70% support, and will be fascinating to see what the good people of Enfield choose as their preferred cycle infra. Though that trafficchoices website seems to LOVE ASLs and is lukewarm about cycle lanes, whether segregated or not...

I would also brace yourself for a howl of protest if any measure brought in seems to any way impinge on motorists.

You spend days on end arguing for Mini Holland on Facebook, and then someone puts this work of genius up... Sometimes I feel like just giving up.

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"You urgently need to drive your child to A&E after they got knocked down by a driver doing 35mph along a residential street"

Depressing. People hate change! A guy was writing into my local paper to complain about the Enfield questionnaire because it didn't give him any proposals he could object to. "Please tell us what you want", "WHY AREN'T YOU TELLING ME WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO, YOU BASTARDS, YOU NEVER LISTEN"

That is just wrong in every way, but, as you say, rather good at being wrong. :|

Things not looking that promising in Kingston:

https://twitter.com/VoleOSpeed/status/541677269014835200

Would be a counterproductive waste of money if it isn't done right...

Ruckholt Road changes approved:

http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Documents/Consultation-Plan-for-Ruckholt-Road.pdf

Works to begin in January.

mmm interesting, typical mixed bag approach but a lot of the routes look on direct desire lines.

I hope it's not the separate cyclist traffic lights that stop you every time.

Since aseasyasridingabike pointed it out, I can't stop noticing the total lack of cars in every single "artist's impression" of new road schemes. I always think "looks great, but where's the mile-long tailback?"

https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/how-to-make-public-space-dull-fill-it-with-cars/

Speaking as a local cyclist I think this is a right load of bollocks.

There is a cycle lane marked on the road already, which means the cars/buses/vans tend not to be competing for road space. Now the cyclists are either going to move onto the road space or be forced onto that segregated bit that goes towards ASDA (where they have to cross the road), and then up over the footbridge.

The turning into Orient Way, where cars/vans/lorries go left, but 99% of cyclists go straight on, is going to put you on the inside, whereas now everyone goes to the right of the road.

And, of course, the whole thing spits you out onto the Eastway, where there is no segregation due to the cunts in Hackney council.

Hopefully I'll be proved wrong.

They've done a Downfall

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1532034537049049&set=vb.1513045852281251&type=2&theater

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Lol. Poor Hitler. I suppose walking to Sainsburys is out of the question?

Helen Osman of n21online (and indomitable and tireless campaigner against the rapacious evils of Mini Holland) wrote into the Enfield Independent recently thus:

At a meeting of local business owners,
the proprietor of a minicab business
reported that a third of his local trade is
taking elderly ladies to hair, GP, dentist,
shopping and other appointments, many of
them along Green Lanes. His
drivers have to park and help
their elderly customers, who
sometimes have zimmer frames.
For many elderly ladies, these
weekly trips are their only social
engagement. Will they still be
able to do this if there is no parking?

Won't someone PLEASE think of the childre- wait

Yeah getting a lot of that in Walthamstow as well. Good thing about the filtered permeability road closures is that they'll make them easier to cross for people with mobility issues.

I wonder what Ms Osman's response would be if parking spaces were to be removed to create a safe zimmerframe lane for elderly people to walk along?

done.

Most people who are against mini holland seem to be homeowners who have increased traffic on their previously quiet street. It makes their street more dangerous, noisier, polluted and drops value of their real estate. I totally understand where they're coming from. The zimmerframe/parking/loss of business hysteria might just be homeowners trying to think of a less-selfish sounding excuse.

So the real issue is as @pootsmanuva said: How can we encourage motorists to cycle or walk for short trips? Hopefully schemes like mini holland will gradually turn the tide.

If homeowners get increased through motor traffic on their street, the filtering isn't being done right. You should do the whole zone to restrict motor traffic in an area to access traffic only.

Most people who are against mini holland seem to be homeowners who have increased traffic on their previously quiet street.

Nah, not in Enfield. Helen O "represents" traders in N21 and the surrounding areas, so she's against it for the same old spurious "but if there is no on-street parking then society will collapse" reasons that many traders are, and she's using old people as an emotive excuse in the hope that people who aren't traders will be swayed to the traders' arguments. The people who actually live on the quiet streets are generally quite keen on the idea as it'll help stop dickheads hooning it up and down their streets at 40mph. The other group that objects tends to be the "keen motorist", and that's a group that I don't think can be reached.

Many normal humans aren't against Mini Holland at all and are more likely to walk and cycle if it weren't for the terrible behaviour of people in cars. Some of them are holding out for MH to enable that (particularly parents or people who feel more vulnerable), and the shouty "WHY WOULD YOU STOP ME DRIVING TO SAINSBURYS" crowd threaten to drown out their voices because they're so angry at the thought of anything being taken away from them... even when they've already got more space and more safety than anyone else.

I'm further down Green Lanes, in the Harringay area, but it's the same here. It's absolutely vital that parking is allowed on the main road because if people had to walk more than 5 feet to the restaurant/shop then they just wouldn't bother and the whole high street would be a desolate wasteland. Given the number of traders compared to residents they appear to have an inordinately loud voice.

The lib dems even had that as a manifesto point in the latest local elections http://haringeylibdems.mycouncillor.org.uk/2014/02/24/lib-dems-free-high-street-parking-petition-handed-in-ahead-of-budget-meeting/
(When I asked for empirical evidence they responded with a couple of local newspaper articles about how a butcher/baker/candlestick maker was struggling after parking restrictions changed.)

To be fair though, there are only two tube stations, three bus routes (plus another dozen on the outskirts) and three overground stations in the area so I can see why driving is so necessary.

^ this is why i don't like segregation / red lining. it benefits some whilst others lose out. it is discriminatory.

better to do 20 mph for the whole built up area. every village, every town and every city centre. that way everybody benefits from safety uplift, noise and pollution reduction etc.