-
Ok, firstly. I'm sorry for the paucity of my intellectual arguments, and based on your limited feedback I'll endeavour to do better.
Secondly, the probable reason that the mods in the ladies forum haven't dealt with this, is simply because they're not around much. They can generally trust the entire forum to not use the ladies forum as a place for casual sexism, so don't feel the need to be here quite so much as they would if it were more hostile.
Thirdly, the fact that this discussion is happening in here is something you're taking very personally, and I'd like to apologise for making you feel that way (this is a genuine apology, rather than the slightly passive-aggressive one in point the first). The reason (IMO) the discussion is happening here has less to do with you than it does with the fact that the ladies subforum really isn't the place for this kind of chat. It's a positive, safe space for women, and something like this will cause an avalanche of negativity in it that will leave all the women feeling a bit soiled and exhausted. I don't know how many of you read the ladies forum regularly, but of those who do, you may have noticed that there aren't ever any arguments in there - no fights, no pissing contests, no rows. The only time I can think of when there was an argument in there was when that moron tommy waded in, and even then there were ladies pleading "can we please not fight in here?" That's deliberate. It's not because ladies in general want to avoid arguments at all costs - you only need to look at me or hats to disabuse you of that idea - it's because we choose our words in there very carefully in order to avoid conflict so that the space is positive and supportive at all times.
To have the argument in there changes this safe space into a space with a chilling effect for people who don't want to fight these attitudes all the time. That's basically the entire internet! There's one place where it doesn't need to be that way, and now our mate here has cocked it up. The alternative, to not have the argument in there, means that the safe space has changed into a space (for women!) where casual sexism goes unchallenged. Both of those options are terrible.
VB, that's why this discussion is happening in this thread, and I don't want you to think that it's happening in here because we're all thinking "that VB! He's such a complicit dickhead and a monster". I'd be very surprised if anybody was thinking that, though I admit I'm constantly surprised at the stuff that goes on in other people's heads. Anyway, so you don't want this discussion happening here, which I understand. It feels like an attack on your diplomatic skills. It's not intended to be. Do you, in turn, see why I'm not hugely keen on this discussion happening in the "super cool women doing neat things on bikes" thread? Please don't take the location of this personally. It's not about you, it's about bro above.
bothwell-
the fact that this discussion is happening in here is something you're taking very personally
Nope. Not at all.
I take the role of admin seriously, as a major responsibility, as a sign of trust in me to do the right thing.
It probably is the case that banning ABCNews is the right thing. But doing the right thing for the wrong reason, would make it the wrong thing.
I hold myself to high standards, and I believe that we are all prone to make mistakes. Given that there is no system that can hold me to account, I hold myself to account by requiring that I only do things on here when I have a clear authority to do so.
For most things, that's easy enough... none of you want spammers here, trolls get banned when they're too much, etc.
But when it's not obvious, I will fight to get out of people clear authority for me to ban someone.
Not the view of one or two people, not an extreme response to an otherwise petty incident. But real evidence that something is wrong, and that the only corrective that should be applied is me banning someone.
Frankly, I'm surprised that my holding myself to high standards is an issue, also that the reason I do so isn't really obvious. I'm surprised that given how I've moderated for years that it isn't pretty clear what steps people need to go through to ensure someone who is posting things that don't meet the (subjective) community standards is then banned.
The end, does not justify the means.
-
I agree with all this here.
I posted the link here in this thread, knowing it is well read by many.
The outcome I was hoping for was everyone talks it out and the post gets deleted. At no point did I ask for a banning/burning at the stake.I am happy to talk gender politics all day long, however I am not happy to carry this out in the ladies subforum due to the atmosphere created in such discussions. Nor am I entering into conversations with trolls, anywhere.
I apologise to @Velocio if it was taken that I just wanted abc banned, I can see how lack of explaining could lead to that. I presumed, wrongly, that no further explanation was required.
However, I do still feel this post in question is inappropriate and negative to the outcomes of the thread it is in and should be deleted or moved, regardless of whether the author wishes it or not.
Velocio
Yukirin
Who here doesn't find someone boring on here?
That's a terrible criteria for demanding a ban. In raising it in here, that's what is being asked of me as it's the only reason to involve me.
Get better criteria, build a better case.
I'm never going to ban someone because from your extremely subjective point of view, someone bores you. Even if you multiply your to include the entire forum population, someone boring everyone (which you probably could never verify) still isn't a reason to ban... it's a reason for those who are bored to put the someone on ignore.
Has the forum slid so much that this is honestly the best case that can be made?
Have all my pleas for a solid reason to ban someone really fallen on deaf ears?
If people want me to act, show me the basis on which to act. That includes showing me reasoned and calm attempts to integrate the someone in question, to get them to understand what has caused issue and how to correct it.
When given such clear information, I act very swiftly.