Should Scotland be an independent country?

Rugged individualism and self reliance of the time trial versus the group consciousness of the velodrome.

Free education, helping to save the NHS, legalising gay marriage, etc. you couldn't really complain.

A clearly stated desire to impose state monopolies in two really important areas where individual choice would be the sensible position? I think some people might complain about that.

Giving the same privileges to same sex unions as to heterosexual ones is typical leftist tokenism; I was never quite sure whether I should be more offended by the weird set of special treatments given to traditional married couples or by the fact that the same were not extended to all families :-)

Ps @mdcc_tester, in my view your assessment of Salmond is well wide of the mark.

I didn't think it was that funny. I know it's a waste of time to keep pointing it out to the communist majority on here, who seem immune to logic.

It was hilarious, as much as any other denial of inequality in the British class system is.

I know what you mean about the testers. Perhaps it goes with the territory: existing in a bubble, focussed on your own goal, time and motion… (beaten to it by T-V (sounds a bit rude))

Rugged individualism and self reliance of the time trial versus the group consciousness of the velodrome.

CTT as an organisation having a lot in common with sovietism vs. the pure predatory survival of the fittest in a match sprint? Even if a large proportion of LFGSS had ever been to a velodrome, I think you could do better :-)

as much as any other denial of inequality in the British class system

Who said anything about inequality? The question was about fairness.

Erm, right, and…

A clearly stated desire to impose state monopolies in two really important areas where individual choice would be the sensible position? I think some people might complain about that.

Ask most Americans how they feel about exercising their 'free choice' when it comes to accessing further education or health care.

And of course insurance companies are well known for co-opting their own monopolies.

Just shut up. For everybody's benefit, shut up. The gap between the actual benefit of your posts on this subject and the real value is immense. I speak as somebody with both Scottish and English parents, and also as a pedant who hugely values intellecual rigour. Please just shut up, you tiresome, fatigueless, shameless, prideless ocd obsessive. Your pathetic, spiteful arguements are causing problems not only in the short term (where a victory has happened with no contribution from assholes like you) to the longer term where reconciliation requires insight of which you are clearly incapable.

From the p0int of intellectual rigour, which I prize absolutely, your posts are contemptible. From the point of purely practical achievement, which you shoud surely value, they are worse than useless. I know you are not stupid, so I have to conclude that your personal vanity drains your intellect.

Whatver else, intellectual rigour entireley is absent from your posts on this topic.

'everybody's benefit' 'shut up' 'clearly'

Condescending phrases like this will lead to your being ignored imho.

Your pathetic, spiteful arguements are causing problems not only in the short term (where a victory has happened with no contribution from assholes like you) to the longer term where reconciliation requires insight

#rep

From what I've heard / read in the news, there seems to be a genuine desire to reconcile and make progress from the leadership of all sides of this debate. Not much progress being made in this thread though.

Your personalised argument is contemptible, tester. I say this as somebody who had no vote in this election and doesn't know how he would have voted given the choice. But your argument is contemptible. Behave better, if you really want to have some effect

But I say this as a Scot.

Shhh, Bruce, proofreading. :)

#thisisnotasubstantivecontributiontothedebate

A minute ago Salmond's a self-serving Thatcherite par excellence, the next a Communist propping up the sagging edifices of 'state monopolies'... Now gay marriage is 'leftist tokenism'?

Where you may be able to calculate aerodynamic drag or rotating mass with success, clearly, in both politics and humanity, you fail quite spectacularly, or maybe you just enjoy being a prick on the internet.

(where a victory has happened with no contribution from assholes like you)

Where's the victory? The stats show that a huge majority (73%) of pensioners, most of whom had voted by post already and had been under the impression their pensions were at risk, delivered the vote for the three stooges, and the last minute begging and promises of devo max dented the clear advantage of Yes in the other age groups, although they would have still been enough to deliver Independence.

A bit of an indictment as to how democracy functions in this country really.

14% of the SNP voted no?

14% of the people who voted for the SNP in 2011 voted No. Probably people who like their policies around education and healthcare but don't want to leave the UK, be that Devo Max or other.

I wouldn't take it as an endorsement of the status quo, like Labour and the Tories would have you believe.

Where you may be able to calculate aerodynamic drag or rotating mass with success, clearly, in both politics and humanity, you fail quite spectacularly, or maybe you just enjoy being a prick on the internet.

#rep

asshole

I gather you disagree with me? Oh well, there's probably room for differences of opinion in matters political.

prick

I gather you disagree with me too? As I said to @itsbruce, there's probably room for differences of opinion in matters political.

a victory has happened with no contribution from assholes like you

I wasn't trying to help the side which got the larger share of the vote, and as a resident of England I was never asked to contribute anyway

an indictment as to how democracy functions in this country

You had plenty of confidence in democracy before you lost.

Even if you had a point (and there are sensible points to be made about electoral reform, for example, in which I have taken an interest for about 30 years), it would be better to give it a rest for now since anything you say at the moment sounds like sour grapes.